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To: All; conservativegramma
"Catholics worship(venerate) Mary because they pray to her, kneel before her image, trust in her for salvation and attribute to her titles and honours which belong to God alone!" ..

You are saying no way God would allow this to happen in heaven?

But this can happen to people from the Philadelphia Church like this:

Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia.

So Only the Philadelphia Church can be honored this way but not his Mother?

He can not honor his mother like he is suppose to as the spotless lamb who was under the law especially from The Ten Commadments? Which he has to do or he is not sinless. Honor your mother or your father.

Sounds like honor which means venerate to me. What about you?

"The whole world is filled with her glory."

Her glory is the same as his because she had him. He shares his glory to others. You know like the Apostles to bring the Gospel to the world. They shared the glory. When he left the planet. His ascension. This can not be?

I think we can have a different opinion of what God really means at times.

276 posted on 03/23/2011 2:23:29 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

I’m curious . . .

Have you ever spent a season of fasting and prayer asking God to show you HIS PERSPECTIVE on Mary?


281 posted on 03/23/2011 3:35:16 AM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: johngrace
You are saying no way God would allow this to happen in heaven? [i.e., praying & bowing to Mary in Heaven]

Yep. No way will God ever allow the creature to be worshipped in Heaven over the Creator.

Isaiah 42:8 - "I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images."

Isaiah 48:11 - "For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act; For how can My name be profaned? And My glory I will not give to another."

Revelation 4 describes worship in Heaven, and there is no description of anyone casting their crowns to anyone but God, or saying "Holy, Holy, Holy" to anyone but God.

Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia.

Jesus said nothing about worshipping the church at Philadelphia in that passage. Look at the context first before jumping to conclusions. Prior to saying 'bow down' he said: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie

What does that mean? He's talking about those who have a false spiritual profession...i.e., who 'say' they are Jews, but 'are not', but 'do lie'....What does verse 8 say about the Church at Philadelphia? That they were 'faithful', that they had KEPT HIS WORD, nor DENIED HIS NAME.

So what does God do with those who were not faithful, those who had a false spiritual profession??? V. 9 - He (GOD) MAKES THEM prostrate themselves before the truth. Verse 9 doesn't say 'they will come' - it says: I (GOD) WILL CAUSE; I (GOD) WILL MAKE; MAKE THEM (the Liars) KNOW.

This is the same thing God will do with all unbelievers in Philippians 2:10-11 "so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

It is a FORCED ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AND CONFESSION OF THEIR ERROR - that Christ is LORD. These are the enemies of Christ and the church being forced into submission before God. They were not worshipping the church at Philadelphia, they are being forced into submission before Christ the same as in Philippians. Do these enemies then go to Heaven because they were forced to bow???? No, that is suggested no where in Scripture. Do any of these passages suggest that the forced submission is before Mary? No. Does anyone cast their crowns before Mary in Heaven? No. Were any of them bowing to IMAGES of the Church at Philadelphia???? NO!

I would suggest to you based on these passages that the time will come when Catholics will be forced to kneel before Protestants by Christ Himself and forced to admit their error. It is not a passage that excuses or allows people to worship other people or images. That is forbidden:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me," - Deut. 5:8-9

The RCC and its members has made many excuses (many laughable) over the years excusing its idolatrous practices and thereby becoming exactly what the Lord was speaking of in Revelation 3:8. The day will come that HE HIMSELF will bring them about, and He will force them to acknowledge their error. The day will come they will have to bow before those whom they persecuted, and have to admit their error before being cast into eternal damnation.

THAT is the real picture in this passage that those trapped in darkness cannot see.

Her glory is the same as his because she had him. He shares his glory to others.

Utter blasphemy. Any Catholic makes the above statement is equating Mary with God. Making her EQUAL WITH GOD. That statement makes her DIVINE, and thus a goddess!! See Isaiah 42:8 and 48:11 again. God will NOT share HIS GLORY with another!!

291 posted on 03/23/2011 5:59:41 AM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: johngrace
Revelation 19:9-10 9And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God." 10Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
302 posted on 03/23/2011 7:26:35 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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