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To: dangus; DungeonMaster
Blatantly untrue....blah blah blah

The sad truth is it is blatantly TRUE! Sources? LOL! How about ANY source from the Vatican???? Here's just ONE for God's sake....I'd be here all day if I posted all of them:

From Vatican Collection Volume 1, Vatican Council II, The Conciliar and Post Conciliar documents. General Editor Austin Flannery, O.P. New revised edition 1992; Costello publishing company, Northport, New York. 1992 pages 420-421 (par. 65) -

65. But while in the most Blessed Virgin the church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle (cf. Eph. 5:27), the faithful still strive to conquer sin and increase in holiness. And so they turn their eyes to Mary who shines forth to the whole community of the elect as the model of virtues. Devoutly meditating on her and contemplating her in the light of the Word made man, the Church reverently penetrates more deeply into the great mystery of the Incarnation and becomes more and more like her spouse. Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echeos the most important doctrines of the Faith: and when she is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful to come to her son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father....

Isn't that wonderful? Christ needs Mary to bring people to Himself, He can't do it on His own. "SHE" prompts....."SHE" is the subject of preaching AND WORSHIP! And this is from the Vatican.

Then there's that wonderful site DungeonMaster posted upthread in Post #162. The juicier parts:

" According to St. Bonaventure, all the angels in heaven unceasingly call out to her: "Holy, holy, holy Mary, Virgin Mother of God."....... while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests."

The whole world is filled with her glory....

The most blasphemous statement I've ever read. "HER" glory???? What about GOD'S GLORY?!?!?!?

Oh I admit Catholics won't ADMIT to worshipping Mary, but it IS what they do! There is not a blatant untruth here, just a refusal by Catholics to face the real truth.

Catholics worship Mary because they pray to her, kneel before her image, trust in her for salvation and attribute to her titles and honours which belong to God alone!

May God grant them all repentance. Rather than looking unto a creature, we should follow Mary in her godly example and apply ourselves to the LORD for salvation and all spiritual blessings. Anything less is blasphemous as it robs HIM of HIS power, glory, and authority above ALL things.

183 posted on 03/22/2011 9:13:00 AM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: conservativegramma

>> she prompts the faithful to come to her son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.... <<

You claim we hold her as a god. And to support this, you cite a passage which plainly states her role is to bring people to the Son and to the Father. That’s pretty funny.

>> she is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts <<

You’re dealing with an historic, translated document. Please look up the real meaning (not the colloquial, American meaning) of the word SUBJECT, as opposed to OBJECT. I’m not terribly familiar with the source, but it’s obvious she is not who is being ultimately worshipped, since her purpose is to bring people to CHRIST.

As for Saint Louis de Montfort, I can confirm he is a saint, so he is CERTAINLY not regarded as a heretic. In fact, I know him to be quite influential. But not being familiar with his thinking, I’m in no situation to deal with proof-texting him.

But why are we proof-texting St. Louis de Montfort? Does he establish doctrine? Does he speak as the church? Even when I go to the home page of that web site, I see pictures of Jesus being crucified, Jesus in the garden in His agony, Jesus beThe normative mode of Catholic worship is the mass. And the Latin mass scarcely mentions the Blessed Virgin Mary. I’m not saying that’s a good thing; I’ve recently started attending a rite which uses an even more ancient liturgy, the Greek Melchite Church of Lebanon, and Mary is fair deal MORE prevalent in that liturgy.


202 posted on 03/22/2011 12:26:00 PM PDT by dangus
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To: conservativegramma
You go Gramma!

If you read Catholic writings you will see them dance around the word worship regarding Mary with amazing precision. You posted one of the more rare moments when they actually drop the W word but that's actually pretty rare. However if you look up Worship in a thesaurus you will see they freely use every word that means the same all the while saying "we don't worship her". Yet another way that they get to have it both ways.

209 posted on 03/22/2011 2:47:37 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (My dad put his arm around me like that once, to this very day he wears orthopedic shirts.)
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To: All; conservativegramma
"Catholics worship(venerate) Mary because they pray to her, kneel before her image, trust in her for salvation and attribute to her titles and honours which belong to God alone!" ..

You are saying no way God would allow this to happen in heaven?

But this can happen to people from the Philadelphia Church like this:

Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia.

So Only the Philadelphia Church can be honored this way but not his Mother?

He can not honor his mother like he is suppose to as the spotless lamb who was under the law especially from The Ten Commadments? Which he has to do or he is not sinless. Honor your mother or your father.

Sounds like honor which means venerate to me. What about you?

"The whole world is filled with her glory."

Her glory is the same as his because she had him. He shares his glory to others. You know like the Apostles to bring the Gospel to the world. They shared the glory. When he left the planet. His ascension. This can not be?

I think we can have a different opinion of what God really means at times.

276 posted on 03/23/2011 2:23:29 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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