Then you believe there are sinless immortal people in the world?
The T in Tulip came from the Council of Ephesus in the year 381. The doctrine of Pelagius had spread over the known world before that. His belief was that sin was only learned (not inherited) and therefore there could be sinless immortal people in the world (like Romulus and Remus, supposedly raised by a she-wolf).
So, I am assuming that you believe there are sinless immortals in the world?
“So, I am assuming that you believe there are sinless immortals in the world?”
No and I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.
I’ve not read the council of Ephesus’ declarations nor am I familiar with Pelagius’ position other then what you’ve mentioned here. But according to what you have claimed what Pelagius believes in I would disagree with him. I believe scripture teaches that man inherited his sin nature through Adam. My statement regarding heaven and hell was in relation to man’s destinations after death and then judgment.
This direction also doesn’t deal with the problem of justification with the TULIP doctrine.
sr4402:
Since this was not labelled a Caucus thread, there are some historical facts that are not correct in your post:
Some points about Rev. Bell’s theology before I get to the historical issues. I am Not a Presbyterian or Reformed so the TULIP doctrine of Calvin is not something that I embrace so I am not going to get into that. As for Rev. Bell, what he is teaching is pure heresy as both Scripture and Tradition [as confirmed by the Creeds] define that Christ will come again in Glory to Judge the Living and Dead, etc.
Now the First Council of Constantinopile was in 381AD which defined the relation between the Holy Spirit and the Father. Rather than use the term “homoousios” to the Holy Spirit, as was used against the Arian Heretcs at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, the Council of Constantinopile in 381 AD added to the statement “We believe in the Holy Spirit” [which was all the Council of Nicea in 325 stated as it did not define what the Church believed about the Holy Spirit only it believed in the Holy SPirit] the additional language “The Lord giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father and with the Father and Son is Worshiped and Glorified. He [The Holy Spirit] has spoken through the Prophets.
The language “With the Father and Son is Worshiped and Glorified” meant the Holy Spirit was due the same Adoration as the Father and Son and thus the Holy Spirit was equal to the Father and Son in terms of Divine Nature.
The Council of Ephesus in 431 dealt with the heresy of Nestorious who posited that only Christ humanity was born of Mary and thus Mary should not be called “Theotokos” because as Nestorious understood it, that would suggest that Divine Nature was born and died on the Cross. Nestorius’s views in essence were dualism, which was a heresy that was prominant in the early Church in various forms. Nestorius views implied that only the Human person of Christ was born and that is what died, rose from the dead, and the Divine Person did not. However, what Nestorius then was proposing could be seen to suggest that Christ was 2 Persons, which obviously could not be reconciled with the Nicene Creeds definition of Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In the end, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD affirmed Mary as “Theotokos” and rejected Nestorius’s theology. While it did not fully Define a Christological definition of the Divine Person of Christ and the Two Natures, Divine and Human in the Divine Person of Christ, it did in rejecting Nestorius’s doctrine help the Church better reflect on the orthodox Doctrine of the Incarnation which would be more formally defined by Pope Saint Leo the Great in 451 AD and the Council of Chalcedon.
Regards and hope this helps