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To: D-fendr; James C. Bennett
IF it was changeless, it would, therefore, not change, else it wasn't really in a changeless state

If it is not changeless than it's not eternal.

In more general terms in the argument, the first cause is independent (in all senses of the word); everything we know in the universe is dependent

That's a hypothetical, free wiling assumption to "balance out" the equation. That's no different than a cosmologist saying there is "dark matter", there has to be, even though we don't know what it is or how to recognize it! But we need it to balance out our equation!

Guess what? maybe the equation is flawed!

663 posted on 01/21/2011 8:09:32 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit...give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- Mithral prayer)
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To: kosta50; James C. Bennett
That's a hypothetical, free wiling assumption to "balance out" the equation.

That's what philosophers and scientists engage in continually. Until they come up with something that explains or solves the equation. And they duel with equations, looking for errors in others and their own, leading to new out-of-balance or unexplained observations, and the process continues. It's how the fields of inquiry work, a major part of the process. Einstein's cosmological constant is an unusually interesting case study in this.

Guess what? maybe the equation is flawed!

And maybe the flaw is that it is flawed.

Either way, we have do more than assert there is an error in an explanation or argument, else we're just nay-saying, rather than engaging in discussion and rational argument.

673 posted on 01/21/2011 9:16:26 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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