Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: D-fendr; kosta50
"... all that exists had to be caused, except the first cause."

Such a "first cause", as we argued very early on, would be a timeless entity and therefore a changeless entity. What that entails is that all of that "first cause" happened in an instant that took no time. Which further implies that "... on the first day I, your deity, created this... on the second day, that..." - based religions cannot be compatible with the First Cause argument.

1,172 posted on 02/07/2011 11:27:59 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1169 | View Replies ]


To: James C. Bennett
would be a timeless entity More precisely: eternal. What that entails is that all of that "first cause" happened in an instant that took no time.

This premise neglects the definition of eternal as outside time. In this definition of eternal, "instant," "time," "no time," "some time," etc. are nonsensical.

1,173 posted on 02/07/2011 11:40:40 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1172 | View Replies ]

To: James C. Bennett
Sorry, reformatting for clarity:

would be a timeless entity

More precisely: eternal.

What that entails is that all of that "first cause" happened in an instant that took no time.

This premise neglects the definition of eternal as outside time. In this definition of eternal, "instant," "time," "no time," "some time," etc. are nonsensical.

1,174 posted on 02/07/2011 11:43:51 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1172 | View Replies ]

To: James C. Bennett
Since, I believe, your premise is flawed - by wrongly assigning time to the term of art, eternal - you conclusion does not follow:

[Judeo-Christian] based religions cannot be compatible with the First Cause argument.

They're not proven in your argument as incompatible.

As I've said earlier, the first cause argument is often objected to as a "proof for God" because it does not describe in full the Christian concept of God. I agree that it does not.

The rebuttal is that the attributes of eternal, uncaused, unmoved, unchanging, etc. are an integral part of Christian theology and therefore compatible.

I'm avoiding a religious discussion here and sticking to the non-transcendent observation and logic of the first cause argument.

How this would work as far as your objection would be: The first cause, uncaused, eternal, causes the dependent causes finite, in time.

And these, in time, happen in time, and time has days, etc.

So, it could be this is an explanation for that portion.

However, I'm not defending any particular religion biblical stance or interpretation here, rather trying here to stick to the first cause argument. In this context, it doesn't matter to me what the ramifications of the first cause arguments are outside the narrow structure of the argument itself.

1,178 posted on 02/07/2011 12:43:36 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1172 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson