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To: CynicalBear
Not only is that wrong for anyone who understands what is needed for salvation but the disparaging word usage is indicative of a weak position.

And criticizing style is somehow evidence of strong position?

I don't care to spin this into a discussion on soteriology, but the American Religion (and I'm thinking of the Joel Osteens and the Ed Youngs of this world) couldn't deliver the Gospel if their lives depended on it, particularly since they reject the need for true repentance.

I was asked by this one sincere woman, after a long discussion on discipleship, how then do I know if a person is saved. Being that I don't have the Book of Life at my fingertips, experience has taught me that one of the primary fruits of salvation is a strong understanding of the need for salvation. I am convinced that the popular message "Jesus will make your life better" is not that sort of Gospel that will lead one into a full confrontation with their sin. If I were to put it on a bumper-sticker, I think a good litmus test is: Have you ever come to that point in your life where you say, like Job, "I am vile."?

Unfortunately, the cultural mindset and target demographic for Futurist consumer market is a vain and shallow crowd who constantly needs entertainment, affirmations of esteem and a rich diet of sensationalism. This is the swill dealt out in your local American Religion Big Box and is available 24/7 on any one of the religious channels on cable and satellite. I'm just reporting what I see, not what I want.

Everyone want to know the future. Your choices are old school Nostradamus, new age crystals, Miss Cloe or the so-called Christian equivalent Lindsey/Hagee/LaHaye hucksters. What really sells is pseudo-religious dreck that mixes geo-politics, hijacked scripture fragments with crystal ball predictions of the future. Why do you think so many people obsess about the Mayan calendar or Bible Codes?

The Gospel has long left the American Religion, and after the amateur musical and acting entertainment, the second tier self-help therapy and esteem boosting, you have to have something that MTV and Dr.Phil don't offer and you have no chance to replicate or beat - and that is the ability to gaze into the future and assuage fears of a nuclear holocaust coming your way because no matter who you vote for or how low your involvement in your community to promulgate Godly character and values, you can always rely on the rip-cord of the Rapture to pluck you out of whatever mess one has Left Behind.

272 posted on 01/16/2011 10:03:21 PM PST by The Theophilus
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To: The Theophilus
I won’t argue with you about the “American Religion Big Box” problems but that doesn’t negate prophecy. History has shown that there is truth wrapped in all apostate teaching. Satan himself quoted scripture, that doesn’t make scripture wrong.

Then let’s also look at this whole notion of the rapture being only a recent belief.

Saint Irenaeus was an early church father and apologist, and his writings were formative in the early development of Christian theology. He was a hearer of Polycarp, who in turn was a disciple of John the Evangelist.

Irenaeus
Against Heresies
Book 5, Chapter 29, Paragraph 1

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” Matt. xxiv. 21. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

Pseudo-Ephraem's Pre Tribulation Rapture Statement (c. 374-627) A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem (section 2)

"All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."

Trying to deny that the early church fathers didn’t believe in the rapture is an out and out lie.

339 posted on 01/17/2011 7:09:59 AM PST by CynicalBear
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