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To: boatbums; presently no screen name; metmom
Personally, I think someone in a position of this kind should be an example, and a good one, to all those within their service.

How is abstinence in a thing that is adiaphora a better example than moderation? The Bible certainly doesn't support this view. Certainly being able to enjoy a thing within limits shows greater self control (fruit of the Spirit) than absolute abstinence.

Here are the things God tells us to abstain from:

that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

Abstain from every form of evil.

Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,

This is what God says about food and other things we might ingest:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.

But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.

Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

It is a rare thing today that I hear Christians willing to give up meat for their vegetarian brethren.

1,194 posted on 01/19/2011 7:59:15 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54; boatbums; presently no screen name
How is abstinence in a thing that is adiaphora a better example than moderation? The Bible certainly doesn't support this view. Certainly being able to enjoy a thing within limits shows greater self control (fruit of the Spirit) than absolute abstinence.

Try again....

1 Corinthians 9 19For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. 23I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

Romans 14 1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

?> 10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." 12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.

16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

1,203 posted on 01/19/2011 8:14:05 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: topcat54
It is a rare thing today that I hear Christians willing to give up meat for their vegetarian brethren.

Perhaps you didn't understand the point. No one is saying we should place rules and laws over someone and basing their salvation on it. There are some today even that make abstaining from meat (on certain days or periods) a practice of their religion and count as sin anyone who does not follow it. They also restrict who can marry - imagine that.

That said, we have friends who ARE vegetarians and when we invite them to our home for a meal we only serve vegetarian foods. We show them respect this way. When we go out to eat with them, they are fine if we order meat in our meal. They show us respect in that as well. So this, I think is Paul's point. He can do without rather than offend someone. Would you still smoke around someone who didn't like smoke? Would it bother you to see your pastor drinking in a bar, coming out of an x-rated movie, chain-smoking? That was the real point anyway. I don't think very highly of grossly overweight preachers either. Their testimony should be important to them as it reflects their relationship with the Lord and those who look up to them.

1,206 posted on 01/19/2011 8:25:58 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: topcat54
Perhaps, I didn't explain where I'm coming from good enough. It's not something I felt I should do but wanted to do. No one is telling me, nor did I feel condemned when I chose to do when I read that Scripture, it was something I 'wanted' to do. And not because it was wrong but I didn't see how it edified me. Like our relationship with Our Father, it's a personal thing. While meditating on His Word I renew my mind, whether it's from old ways or old thoughts.

It is a rare thing today that I hear Christians willing to give up meat for their vegetarian brethren

Or the vegetarian having a hamburger with me. However, I guess he could have a veggieburger.

Personally, anyone can eat, drink whatever - it's makes no difference to me and never has nor have I found it to be a stumbling block in my walk.
1,219 posted on 01/19/2011 9:14:43 PM PST by presently no screen name
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