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To: Cronos
That's right..I don't trust church leadership to always follow what Christ would that they do...regardless of denomination. The Spirit of Christ of course is true to believers as much to the Leadership...but man is fickle and does not always listen as he ought. In fact can be and do contrary wise.

But it is one thing for any man in leadership to be tempted and fail...it's another when he gives little if any evidence he's interested in anything more than advancing his own selfish gain.

Like politics there are too many assuming /appointed to leadership which have no business being there in the first place. Corruption of those offices and how they are appointed is often overlooked or excused. It's in your church and others today. We see the evidence.

Jesus is our Shepherd, Cronos, and it is He who directs, cares and feeds us. It is to Him we look and as we do He warns us of wolfs beforehand, and He did do just that saying they would even come from within the fold...some heed...some will not or cannot for they are not His to begin with.

But when you consider the politics of these offices, which is always included as well..then one needs to especially take heed of just who and what leadership is about and doing. Who is appointing them is perhaps even more important...and how do they themselves reflect Christ.

I still say if a church I attended had a long history of appointing bad leadership, I would in time simply go to another church...and have the freedom to determine that. Unfortunately that option is seldom available to catholics without a whole host of issues and loops to jump thru.

So I do wonder how it is that for so long the people endured such tyrants....the fact of the matter is God has great patience with the church leadership, but in time He will act 'thru His people'...appoint a spokesman to inform...and thus... in that time...the Reformation. Enough was enough and God moved His people to act.

1,006 posted on 01/19/2011 5:36:25 AM PST by caww
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To: caww
Jesus is our Shepherd, Cronos, and it is He who directs, cares and feeds us. It is to Him we look and as we do He warns us of wolfs beforehand, and He did do just that saying they would even come from within the fold...some heed...some will not or cannot for they are not His to begin with.

Of course -- we all acknowledge that Christ is the Good shepherd.

Yet Acts 20:28 says Be shepherds of the church of God

and 1 Peter 5:2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be;

"politics is always included as well" -- I agree, sadly, that is why some of the saintliest bishops refused these offices but were practically forced to at times.

I of course disagree with you about leaving and jumping because of an earthly leader. Our true leader is Christ, so if we have a bonehead priest or bishop or pope, that's irrelevant, what is relevant is Christ Himself.

Jumping from ship to ship like many do is really wrong -- you see so many who jump and lose their way terribly (Michael Servetus for one notable example). The trick is to stay and believe in God and God's ability to change things.

If I take the example that we consider The Church to be akin to the royal priesthood of Israel, the native Israelites did not change their Israeliism because of a bad king or high priest. Those that did, ended badly (the Northern tribes). Rather the truth is to stay and let God lead.
1,018 posted on 01/19/2011 7:27:52 AM PST by Cronos (Bobby Jindal 2012)
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