Posted on 12/17/2010 7:31:07 AM PST by marshmallow
Time for correcting those in error...even in their prayers for Jesus even had to teach His diciples how to pray....
Holy Jesus, Savior, and magestic King,
help all who are in trouble
Give courage to the fainthearted,
console the sad,
heal the infirm,
answer the prayers of your people,
equip our clergy thru thy great spirit,
have special care for those in leadership and their mates,
may all ‘know’
all enjoy your presence, and be grateful for your response.
Hear our Prayers Almighty Father,
and grant them according to your perfect will.
We ask this in Jesus name and for His glory both now and forevermore.
Amen
Mismatch of logic — a grave is not an image of someone’s parents. An image of Mary is just that—an image that is being worshipped. I’m not worshipping my parents image... There is none!!!
Let’s not mix our metaphors....
Hoss
INDEED.
HIDEOUS.
WOW.
HOW INCREDIBLY BRAZEN of them!
one more thing Lord....forgive those who misdirect their prayer away from before your throne....they are misguided as you know...so bring them to your cross once more that they might realize you personally as their mediator and Savior alone.
“But a person would have to pray to Mary if they are asking her something because she is not physically here.”
No they don’t. All they have to do is say, “Mary, Mother of God, pray for us.” or “Saint whomever, Pray for us”.
“However we do not entrust the world to one or ask protection and guidance from someone who in turn is going to ask God!”
Never said we do or should, simply that we *can* ask them to pray for us in addition to our own prayers to God.
“If this is not praying to Mary then one is not praying to the Father either in the Rosary.”
The Rosary includes the Our Father. We do not ask anything of Mary other than to simply hear our prayers and to pray for us to God. That’s it.
“God says to ask Him— not Mary.”
He commands that we are to pray FOR one another. Mary is commanded to pray FOR us, as we are for one another. It’s not an either/or question, but both.
“Only God can answer ones prayer. So it becomes useless to pray to a saint, any saint no matter how great they may be.”
Again we are not PRAYING TO the saint. We are simply asking them to pray for us as we would our friend down the street. You seem hung up on the fact that she is not here in the flesh presently. I don’t understand this at all. You believe that the Holy Spirit is inside of you, helping you to pray, and that Christ is right there beside you.
I agree, only God can answer our prayers, but we are all called to pray for us, and we can ASK each other to do so at any time.
I’m glad to see you’ll willingly dig dig dig, but cannot understand a simple statement also in the catechism.
The catechism says that we can ask any of the Saints to pray for us to God.
My sons attended a RC HS. My youngest is finishing this year. When looking at colleges his only criteria was "no grotto". When asked by his Mom why, he told her he was "sick and tired of the pagan goddess worship".
Both boys recognized the Maryolatry for what it is right from the get go.
You still have them? I’ll take them if you don’t want them.
You were so blessed to grow up in the Faith.
Why would we need Mary as an intercessor, the passage above says it all.
Just putting this in perspective:
Mary speaks...and it’s all about Him...
My soul Magnifies.....”the Lord”.
My spirit rejoices in.”in “God... “MY SAVIOR”
He has regarded...
He who has done great things....”Holy is His NAme”
HIS MERCY....
HE has shown.... HIS arm;
HE has scattered the proud
HE has put down the mighty
He has filled the hungry
He has sent away the rich empty
He has helped Israel
His Mercy
He spoke to our fathers
Glory be to the Father and the Son and to the Holy Spirit..
We don’t worship them, so they are not idols. They are statues to help us honour and remember the great Saints of ages past.
Same as with Christ. We honour him through pictures and paintings. The word in the greek is Ikon, and the practice, the depiction of God and holy scenes, iconography.
To you they are idolatry. Fine. I hear what you are saying, however, you must exercise charity towards your brothers and sisters and understand that we do not worship the statues. They are not the centre or focus of the worship.
Christ is, through the mass, and the sacrifice.
Mismatch of logic — a grave is not an image of someone’s parents.
Really? There are often graves with either statuary or photographic images of the decedent present. Your (mis)use of the word logic betrays your lack of formal training in that field. HossB86 wrote:
An image of Mary is just that—an image that is being worshipped.
So you say. No proof, just a baldfaced claim. One without merit, by the way. HossB86 wrote:
I’m not worshipping my parents image... There is none!!!
No doubt that sentence made sense to you. Sadly not so much to anyone else. HossB86 wrote:
Let’s not mix our metaphors....
Indeed no! On the other hand you might try taking some basic educational courses in English and in Logic. Most community colleges have remedial courses at very low cost. Then, after you are able to use the language we ought to have in common in a rational way, let's try this discussion again. Until then:
My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden, For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with His arm: He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree. He has filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He has sent empty away. He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy; As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum, et exsultávit spíritus meus in Deo salvatóre meo, quia respéxit humilitátem ancíllæ suæ. Ecce enim ex hoc beátam me dicent omnes generatiónes, quia fecit mihi magna, qui potens est, et sanctum nomen eius, et misericórdia eius in progénies et progénies timéntibus eum. Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo, dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui; depósuit poténtes de sede et exaltávit húmiles. Esuriéntes implévit bonis et dívites dimísit inánes. Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum, recordátus misericórdiæ, sicut locútus est ad patres nostros, Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula. Glória Patri et Fílio et Spirítui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.
Applause! Indeed, that is the point. So what is the problem you have with honoring His Mother and her humility?
So when I ask you to pray for me that is prayer?
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
narses provided the smoking gun, Ben. This is quoted from narses’ post:
“Hear all our prayers, O Mother,
and grant them all.
We are all your children:
Grant the prayers of your children.”
1. “hear all our prayers....” Sounds pretty straightforward to me.
2. “We are all your children: Grant the prayers of your children.”
We are HER children? HER CHILDREN? We are God’s children and His ALONE.
Now... You were saying something about not praying to Mary??
Hoss
Which is why we have *zero* copies of said Latin bible?
Yet we have Greek manuscripts such as the Codex Vaticanus that are far older? Wouldn’t it make sense that we would have Latin and not Greek bibles if what you say is true?
Why didn’t St. Jerome use them then, and why would the Church undertake a translation project in the 5th century if they had access to such a document? Why didn’t they continue to print this Latin bible?
Real edified by all that Latin. /sarc
Sarcasm eh? Nice. The Latin was preceded by a modern English translation. That may have escaped your notice.
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