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To: Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; D-fendr
does God so love the world, or does He only love certain men and hate others?

God loving the world, i.e., His creation in general, is not mutually exclusive with God hating certain people in particular.

It is an express Biblical teaching that God hates certain people:

Why would you preach against the express Biblical teaching that God Hates Certain People? It says that God hates certain people, EXPLICITLY, right there in the Infallible Word of God!

"Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies." (Psalm 139:21-22)

If you don't like what the Bible says; if you don't preach what the Word of God explicitly declares -- if, in fact, you directly contradict the Word of God -- then can you really claim to believe the Word of God?

5,024 posted on 09/15/2010 7:54:37 AM PDT by Christian_Capitalist (Taxation over 10% is Tyranny -- 1 Samuel 8:17)
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To: Christian_Capitalist

God hates evil. People who refuse to repent but wallow in evil will receive his wrath. Frankly, God gets angry with me when I sin.

But he loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son. And while we were his enemies, he died for us.

But God did NOT pick a list of names to hate from before the beginning of the world and compel them to sin so he could judge them for doing what they could not help doing.

I hate and despise Obama, but if he repented and turned to Jesus, I would welcome him as my brother.


5,031 posted on 09/15/2010 8:06:40 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (When the ass brays, don't reply...)
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To: Christian_Capitalist; Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; D-fendr

“God loving the world, i.e., His creation in general, is not mutually exclusive with God hating certain people in particular.”

*****************************************************************************************

And in context, it says.....

John 3:10-21

10”You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

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Jesus is talking about PEOPLE. He didn’t die to redeem creation. He came and died to redeem PEOPLE.


5,033 posted on 09/15/2010 8:35:20 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Christian_Capitalist; Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg
It is an express Biblical teaching that God hates certain people:

God Hates iniquitous men, bloody and deceitful men,wicked and violent men,perverse men, proud men


And yet that is not the point -- the point is that in a Calvinist viewpoint, God created people to be iniquitous men, bloody and deceitful men,wicked and violent men,perverse men, proud men--> determined from before time that that is what they would be (since they have no free will to do anything else). The actions which you state are what men do of their own free will: to be deceitful or violent or perverse etc., those are not the actions of puppets.

I do understand from your posts that you are not of the "hyper-Calvinist viewpoint", which believes in double predestination -- i.e. that God decided that some would go to hell from before they born and others to heaven, with them having no will to chose or not to choose.

The debate here was against the "hyper-Calvinist" viewpoint.
5,209 posted on 09/15/2010 2:19:51 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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