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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50

“”I would encourage you to actually read Augustine rather than cite clips form the internet approved by Rome””

I have read Blessed Augustine and agree with him when he is in line with consistent church teaching

Blessed Augustine had some error in thought like we all do sometimes but always submitted to the Church. and stayed within the Church.

The late Fr Willam Most explains some of Augustine’s error in thinking .
http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/AUGUSTIN.HTM

The Eastern Fathers, absolutely all of them, and Westerners before Augustine, and even after him, saw that there is no reprobation, not even negative, except in consideration of demerits. Augustine did not see that, and the unfortunate massa damnata theory, which said the whole human race by original sin became a massa damnata et damnabilis: God could throw the whole damned race into hell for original sin alone, without waiting for any personal sin.

God wanted to display mercy and justice. To display mercy, He chose a small percent to rescue; the rest He deserted and so they would go to hell.

He thought God picked those to rescue blindly, without any consideration of how they lived. He picked them not that He had any love for them, but merely to make a point. Augustine did not see it, but that was a denial of God’s love. For to love is to will good to another for the other’s sake. If I will good to another not for that other’s sake, but for some outside purpose of mine, I am not loving that person, but using him.

So in that theory, God does not really love anyone, He merely uses the few for His own purposes, not for their sake. Hence, as we shall son see, he explicitly denied several times that “God wills all to be saved: (1 Tim 2:4) . He even said, as we shall soon see below, that it means
nothing to God that most persons are damned, without a chance.

Of course Augustine did not see this fact, or he would surely have stayed away from his theory. Actually, as we shall see later on, in about six places he implies the opposite of that theory, when his sense of God’s goodness took over his thinking


4,719 posted on 09/14/2010 1:53:26 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
Of course Augustine did not see this fact, or he would surely have stayed away from his theory.

lol. I see. Another Roman Catholic who knows better than the church fathers.

On this, I'll trust Augustine.

4,735 posted on 09/14/2010 2:32:31 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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