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To: D-fendr
Double predestination simply says the fate of all men is in the hands of God and has been from the beginning, and that salvation is not merited nor earned by good works, but rests securely in the good pleasure of the Creator.

I like what the WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH says about the church (Chapter 25 of 32)...

Chapter XXV
Of the Church

I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that fills all in all.[1]

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

III. Unto this catholic visible Church Christ has given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and does, by His own presence and Spirit, according to His promise, make them effectual thereunto.[7]

IV. This catholic Church has been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.[8] And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.[9]

V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error;[10] and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.[11] Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth to worship God according to His will.[12]

VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof...

I'll omit the last sentence, in the spirit of fellowship. 8~)

4,459 posted on 09/13/2010 10:48:37 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Double predestination says you’re doomed or saved in the womb - and there’s nothing that can change that, not changing churches.

If someone doomed in the womb leaves the Catholic Church for a “bible-believing” church, can they possibly be saved?

If some saved in the womb becomes a strong Catholic, says his rosary 100 times a day, believes all that you believe about the Church is true, can that person possibly lose his salvation?


4,460 posted on 09/13/2010 10:52:54 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

And double predestination says it’s your fault for being born that way.

It is as if God punishes those born without legs for not being able to walk.


4,461 posted on 09/13/2010 10:54:30 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“I’ll omit the last sentence in the spirit of fellowship”

Is that the sentence that calls the Pope the Anti-Christ?

Just today I heard a former Presbyterian minister say that those words were in the Westminster Confession.


4,462 posted on 09/13/2010 10:58:28 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words: "It's too late"))
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