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To: Cronos

To believe Mary is a co-redeemer and an intercessor and a dispensatrix of all graces is 100% idolatry.

Rome doesn’t believe the sacrifice of Christ was sufficient for the job of redeeming His flock. Rome requires a female god to be “in union” with the one Redeemer.

Flee from it, lest you become like it.

God willing, it’s not too late.


1,870 posted on 09/07/2010 8:52:01 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Doc Eck: Rome doesn’t believe .... {some nonsense}

Dogmatic constitution on the Church Point 62 reads
This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.


Nice try -- you quoted the Dogmatic constitution on the CHurch which says so clearly "This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator. "

of course you need to actually READ in context, not in excerpts. OrthoPresbyC cultists do the same thing with their bible (which is just 14 pages of excerpts) and try to do the same thing to every other text.

To simplify it for you - "manifold intercessions" means "many prayers" TO GOD

and "brings us" does not mean "originates" or "creates" but means carries or bears

It would be good for you to leave the heretical, non-Christian OPC.
1,962 posted on 09/07/2010 1:09:12 PM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Incidently, Dogmatic constitution on the CHurch:
No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
Point 56 reads
56. The Father of mercies willed that the incarnation should be preceded by the acceptance of her who was predestined to be the mother of His Son, so that just as a woman contributed to death, so also a woman should contribute to life. That is true in outstanding fashion of the mother of Jesus, who gave to the world Him who is Life itself and who renews all things, and who was enriched by God with the gifts which befit such a role. It is no wonder therefore that the usage prevailed among the Fathers whereby they called the mother of God entirely holy and free from all stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.(5*) Adorned from the first instant of her conception with the radiance of an entirely unique holiness, the Virgin of Nazareth is greeted, on God's command, by an angel messenger as "full of grace",(286) and to the heavenly messenger she replies: "Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word".(287) Thus Mary, a daughter of Adam, consenting to the divine Word, became the mother of Jesus, the one and only Mediator. Embracing God's salvific will with a full heart and impeded by no sin, she devoted herself totally as a handmaid of the Lord to the person and work of her Son, under Him and with Him, by the grace of almighty God, serving the mystery of redemption. Rightly therefore the holy Fathers see her as used by God not merely in a passive way, but as freely cooperating in the work of human salvation through faith and obedience. For, as St. Irenaeus says, she "being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."(6*) Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert in their preaching, "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience; what the virgin Eve bound through her unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosened by her faith."(7*) Comparing Mary with Eve, they call her "the Mother of the living,"(8*) and still more often they say: "death through Eve, life through Mary."(9*)
Point 57 reads
This union of the Mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to His death it is shown first of all when Mary, arising in haste to go to visit Elizabeth, is greeted by her as blessed because of her belief in the promise of salvation and the precursor leaped with joy in the womb of his mother.(288) This union is manifest also at the birth of Our Lord, who did not diminish His mother's virginal integrity but sanctified it,(10*) when the Mother of God joyfully showed her firstborn Son to the shepherds and Magi. When she presented Him to the Lord in the temple, making the offering of the poor, she heard Simeon foretelling at the same time that her Son would be a sign of contradiction and that a sword would pierce the mother's soul, that out of many hearts thoughts might be revealed.(289) When the Child Jesus was lost and they had sought Him sorrowing, His parents found Him in the temple, taken up with the things that were His Father's business; and they did not understand the word of their Son. His Mother indeed kept these things to be pondered over in her heart.(290)


of course you need to actually read in context, not in excerpts. OPC cultists do the same thing with their bible (which is just 14 pages of excerpts) and try to do the same thing to every other text

Thanks for referring this text which CLEARLY SAYS " This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator. "

Evidently your pastors lied to you as The Church believes the sacrifice of Christ was sufficient for the salvation of our sins.

Also, The Church has only One God - I don't know if the OPC has something else, but The Church doesn't. Flee from the OPC, lest you become like it (as the conservative Presbyterian website calls it a nest of heresy).

God willing, it's not too late to leave the heretical OPC
1,964 posted on 09/07/2010 1:14:17 PM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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