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To: Cronos; metmom
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH PUTS MARY ON THE CROSS

"...“As St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ... ‘death through Eve, LIFE THROUGH MARY.’ This UNION OF THE MOTHER WITH THE SON IN THE WORK OF SALVATION is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 56, pp. 380-381).

“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but BY HER MANIFOLD INTERCESSION CONTINUES TO BRING US THE GIFTS OF ETERNAL SALVATION. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of ADVOCATE, HELPER, BENEFACTRESS, and MEDIATRIX” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 62, pp. 382-383).

A plaque in the Chapel of the Virgin of the Grace at Saints Vincent and Anastasius Church in Rome says, “Cardinal Benedetto Odescalchi, who became the pope with the name of Innocent XI, initiated THE WORSHIP OF THE IMAGE, placed on the altar in 1677, and wanted his heart to be buried here, not in the main chapel.”...

Mary is not a co-mediator between God and men. Mary did not nor does she today "collaborate" with Christ in His role as Savior. Mary does not bring us "the gifts of eternal salvation."

Rome preaches another Gospel. Rome believes a lie. Rome makes the Son subservient to the mother. Rome teaches idolatry. Flee from it.

1,843 posted on 09/07/2010 8:11:11 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Dogmatic constitution on the CHurch:
No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
Point 56 reads
56. The Father of mercies willed that the incarnation should be preceded by the acceptance of her who was predestined to be the mother of His Son, so that just as a woman contributed to death, so also a woman should contribute to life. That is true in outstanding fashion of the mother of Jesus, who gave to the world Him who is Life itself and who renews all things, and who was enriched by God with the gifts which befit such a role. It is no wonder therefore that the usage prevailed among the Fathers whereby they called the mother of God entirely holy and free from all stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.(5*) Adorned from the first instant of her conception with the radiance of an entirely unique holiness, the Virgin of Nazareth is greeted, on God's command, by an angel messenger as "full of grace",(286) and to the heavenly messenger she replies: "Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word".(287) Thus Mary, a daughter of Adam, consenting to the divine Word, became the mother of Jesus, the one and only Mediator. Embracing God's salvific will with a full heart and impeded by no sin, she devoted herself totally as a handmaid of the Lord to the person and work of her Son, under Him and with Him, by the grace of almighty God, serving the mystery of redemption. Rightly therefore the holy Fathers see her as used by God not merely in a passive way, but as freely cooperating in the work of human salvation through faith and obedience. For, as St. Irenaeus says, she "being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race."(6*) Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert in their preaching, "The knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience; what the virgin Eve bound through her unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosened by her faith."(7*) Comparing Mary with Eve, they call her "the Mother of the living,"(8*) and still more often they say: "death through Eve, life through Mary."(9*)
Point 57 reads
This union of the Mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to His death it is shown first of all when Mary, arising in haste to go to visit Elizabeth, is greeted by her as blessed because of her belief in the promise of salvation and the precursor leaped with joy in the womb of his mother.(288) This union is manifest also at the birth of Our Lord, who did not diminish His mother's virginal integrity but sanctified it,(10*) when the Mother of God joyfully showed her firstborn Son to the shepherds and Magi. When she presented Him to the Lord in the temple, making the offering of the poor, she heard Simeon foretelling at the same time that her Son would be a sign of contradiction and that a sword would pierce the mother's soul, that out of many hearts thoughts might be revealed.(289) When the Child Jesus was lost and they had sought Him sorrowing, His parents found Him in the temple, taken up with the things that were His Father's business; and they did not understand the word of their Son. His Mother indeed kept these things to be pondered over in her heart.(290)


of course you need to actually read in context, not in excerpts. OPC cultists do the same thing with their bible (which is just 14 pages of excerpts) and try to do the same thing to every other text
1,858 posted on 09/07/2010 8:38:53 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Dogmatic constitution on the CHurch Point 62 reads
This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.


of course you need to actually read in context, not in excerpts. OPC cultists do the same thing with their bible (which is just 14 pages of excerpts) and try to do the same thing to every other text.

To simplify it for you - "manifold intercessions" means "many prayers" TO GOD

and "brings us" does not mean "originates" or "creates" but means carries or bears.
1,862 posted on 09/07/2010 8:43:55 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Oh and I’ve been a few times to Rome and to Chapel of the Virgin of the Grace at Saints Vincent and Anastasius Church in Rome and I’ve not seen any such sign in English that you indicate — your sources are wrong about this as they are about other things/


1,865 posted on 09/07/2010 8:46:01 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And this is why I wrote the points down for you in simple English:

1. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the salvation of our sins. This is Church teaching

2. God willed that this work of salvation be accomplished through the collaboration of a woman, while respecting her free will (Gal. 4:4) But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law

3. All God's creatures -- Mary included, need to accept Christ/God. This us co-operating (in the sense of only saying "yes") with God's plan and His work and His grace in our salvation. We do NOTHING to save oursevels except to accept HIM. Do you agree with this?

4. 1 Peter 2:5 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. and Phil 3:10 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

5. We are to proclaim Christ crucified. We are to spread the gospel and share the saving work of Christ with the world. We are called to prayer, holiness, and evangelism. We hence co-operate or rather are tools in God's plan of salvation.

6. Just as Moses and Abraham interceded with God, we too intercede with God for others.

7. These and the evangelists spread the Word of God to the Word and we as minor evangelisers TOO must spread the Word of God

8. Mary BORE the Word of God, she was a tool, an evangelizer in bringing the Word of God to the World

9. Just as our co-operation as tools is just an addition to Christ's death that saves the world, so too is Mary's role as a tool, a co-operator (in the sense that she bore Christ, our God and our Lord)with God.

10. Col 1:24 24Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. is St. Paul implying that Christ’s death on the cross was inadequate? Not at all. Instead, he is teaching that the all-sufficient sacrifice has to be completed by being preached, accepted, and embraced by our cooperation and that our suffering plays a mysterious part in this action. In that way the Redemption of Christ is applied and brought alive in the present moment by our own cooperation in that one, full, final sacrifice. No one says we are equal to Christ; instead, by grace, our cooperation becomes a part of Christ’s all sufficient sacrifice.

11. Mary too co-operated, yet as Simeon said in Luke 2:35 35so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too."

12. Acts 1:14 14They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

15. Mary was not discarded by God once her purpose was completed. Instead, God installs her into an eternal relationship with God as a tool for God's plan for salvation of the world.

16. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home
1,866 posted on 09/07/2010 8:47:11 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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