Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
True there has been much research and discovery in the last hundred years since Newman but his basic contention, that the Catholic Church can pronounce the sow’s ear of pagan practices acceptable as the silk purse of Christian worship still is the position of the Catholic Church.
More big talk. Please put up and prove your claims. I'll get the popcorn in the meantime.
And so you can not rightly claim the Gospels contain the "words of Christ "can you? Just as the words in the gospel are inspired so are the words of Paul
Would you like to address the point or address the point.. Is all the scripture inspired by God or not ?
I can imagine the fundamentalist females...
They are the words of Christ as far as the Church teaches. If you would reduce the Gospels to less than those of the Pauline epistles (quick now - how many of the Pauline epistles were actually written by Paul?) then you really don't have any claim to call yourself Christian, do you?
Yep, rationalization ... They are now holy because we use them and that makes them holy ...Psss one has to hide the bible to believe that is true
Sobering points with far too much truth in them for comfort, I’d think.
Nor do I. I was stating Newman’s position and how he is regarded in the Catholic Church.
If you’ve never heard him quoted by a Protestant maybe Protestants should read him more. He was quite a historian.
So then the church affirms it is almost inspired ,right? Well at least the parts that fit the doctrine according to tradition..
We have already arrived at the fact the gospels do not have the exact words spoken by Christ but that each writer was inspired to recount sometimes differing accounts..
Catholics are something..yea Paul is a 'saint" but he taught false doctrine.. yea the bible is infallible except when they do not think it is, then tradition takes over.. of course all the "fathers " did not agree and sometimes they were wrong, but they know they were right sometimes..
A religion built on sand..
Can anyone really do that ?
An inheritance from Rome.. But we did not take the sun god symbols or the goddess thing or purgatory ,or idols or some pagan things we left behind for Rome to roll around in
In deed, quite so.
Touché
“”There was no “Catholic Church”, there was no unanimity of thought.””
YAAWN!
From the Early Christians
The Church is one
“The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shall be outside of the Church. The Lord warns, saying, ‘He who is not with me is against me, and he who gathereth not with me scattereth.’ Cyprian, On Unity, 6 (A.D. 251).
Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord’s Scriptures. For the Church has been planted as a garden (paradisus) in this world; therefore says the Spirit of God, ‘Thou mayest freely eat from every tree of the garden,’ that is, Eat ye from every Scripture of the Lord; but ye shall not eat with an uplifted mind, nor touch any heretical discord.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5:20 (A.D. 180).
“To sum up all in one word—what the soul is in the body, that are Christians in the world. The soul is dispersed through all the members of the body, and Christians are scattered through all the cities of the world. The soul dwells in the body, yet is not of the body; and Christians dwell in the world, yet are not of the world. The invisible soul is guarded by the visible body, and Christians are known indeed to be in the world, but their godliness remains invisible.” Letter to Diognetus, 6:1 (A.D. 200).
“You may learn, if you will, the crowning wisdom of the all-holy Shepherd and Instructor, of the omnipotent and paternal Word, when He figuratively represents Himself as the Shepherd of the sheep Such are the promises of the good Shepherd. Feed us, the children, as sheep. Yea, Master, fill us with righteousness, Thine own pasture; yea, O Instructor, feed us on Thy holy mountain the Church, which towers aloft, which is above the clouds, which touches heaven.” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, I:9 (A.D. 202).
The Church is Catholic
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.” Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).
to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline...one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul’s name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church...But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all. The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).
“[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).
The Catholic Church is the same Church and same core beliefs as today.
Throughout history the Church has had to define it’s teachings because of heretics from Arius to Luther to Calvin etc...and where there was not “UNANIMITY” these heretics along with others are condemned or condemn themselves
Paul's teachings and writings were completely inspired, just bounded by the Gospels.
"yea Paul is a 'saint" but he taught false doctrine.."
Paul is a Saint who taught a completely true doctrine. It is the heretics who came later, elevated his status to one he would never assume unto himself, and perverted his teachings that bear the sin.
This gets more outrageous the closer Halloween gets.
Not usually unless I don't feel good, then sometimes I'm a little touchy.
Not at all, just fundamentalist fantasy.
[The priest] offers his humanity to Christ, so that Christ may use him as an instrument of salvation, making him as it were into another Christ. Pope John Paul II
Words mean things
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