Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
Ok. Then I’ll take that as a yes on double predestination.
Ya coulda saved me some time here, friend.. :)
How "humble" of you to think you can impress God with your goodness.. now that is real humility
Define the word "person"
So then you agree with the Calvinists that double predestination is found in the bible?
Amen, Dr. E. I would carry this one step further. Every Christian, no matter how large or small, is important to the fabric of God's tapestry. Christ is the cornerstone and each of us is a block within the structure of the church. Every one of us is important and divinely joined to Christ's Spirit. We should never think that one of us didn't need to exist. That is not how God views it.
I would recommend Joseph Philpot's article, Blessings Imputed. Here is a small quote from his argument:
1. Every soul, then, that ever had, has now, or ever will have a standing in Christ, had this standing in Him from all eternity. Just in the same way as the vine, according to the Lord's own figure, puts forth the branches out of the stem; not a single branch comes out of the stock but what previously was in the stock--so, not a single soul comes manifestatively into spiritual existence which had not first an invisible and eternal union with the Son of God. This eternal, immanent, and invisible union with the Person of Christ, God blessed his people with before all worlds, by his eternal purpose, and according to his own eternal counsel.
2. Now, out of this eternal and immanent union springs the second union that we have spoken of, which is a time union--a union in grace--a vital union between a living soul and a living Head. Until the Lord quickens elect vessels of mercy they have eternal union, but they have not time union. Their eternal union never can be altered--that never can be dissolved--that accompanies them all through their unregenerate state--but their vital, spiritual, and experimental union takes place in time, through the teaching, and under the operations of the blessed Spirit.
So you don’t believe each of the three persons is God whole and entire?
The parents choose to baptize their child in the Church or not. The baptized makes their free will choices as they come of age in knowing right from wrong, following and believing in Jesus, etc.
This is quite different from belief that a fetus is either saved or doomed in the womb - with no free will choices ever, and nothing possible changing their salvation one way or the other.
I try to stay on topic and debate the issue at hand.. but a quick read will show that I have been mocked and insulted by "your side"..As Harry Truman said..if you can not stand the heat , stay out of the Kitchen .. I take the mocking and insults as a part of the forum....I guess that is a good rule to follow.. if our feelings are hurt, maybe this is not the right place to post, the nice "uplifting" Catholic forums might be a better venue
If you examine baptism in light of double predestination, then baptism makes no difference - however you proscribe or define it.
If they are elect, not baptising cannot change that; if they are doomed, baptising cannot change that.
That's the point of double predestination - nothing can change as regards their salvation from the womb on.
...only if you do not have a pope to tell you what to think I guess
Well you are talking to a Baptist— ironically we dont believe that baptism saves anyone
That’s mind-reading. Verbotten.
No. Vigorously disagree with the Calvinist, or double, predestination, interpretation.
Well by your replies and logic answering to me, you do. you can’t have it both ways
we dont believe that baptism saves anyone
The question regarding double predestination is whether anything - other than the fact of whether they were born saved or doomed - CAN save or condemn anyone. Whether anything change in salvation at all is possible after the person is conceived.
Double predestination says no.
*There’s lots of different Baptists beliefs - I think they’re proud of that.* oh yes? tell me some
1. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.Paul's letters were seen by the apostle to the Jews, Peter, as being scripture, the distortion of which in both cases leads to spiritual destruction:
2. I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
3. For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles.
4. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Exactly, that is why we need a Savior.. The Law was never written by God with the expectation that we could keep any of it.. It was written so that we would know we were sinners ...
like referring to him as loony?
I believe what the bible says.Is all this review necessary? You could just answer what you believe without forcing me to guess. Oh, well.Ok. I'll take that as a no to WCF and double-predestination.
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