Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
No *if’s*. John told us that he wrote what he did so that we can know that we are saved.
Since it is considered Scripture, even by the Catholic Church, it cannot be considered a lie, being inspired by God.
"Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that NEITHER DEATH, NOR LIFE, NOR ANGELS, NOR PRINCIPALITIES, NOR POWERS, NOR THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME, NOR HEIGHT, NOR DEPTH, NOR ANY OTHER CREATURE, shall be ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD." (Rom. 8:34-39).
NOTHING. AN ALL INCLUSIVE WORD. NOTHING shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus.
“I was. Mass every Sunday. Never saw any foot washing going on.”
Snort. Guffaw. Yeah, right. And nobody ever knelt either. Try again, that claim has zero credibility.
“So then, you don’t believe that divorced people should ever remarry? Ever?”
That certainly is NOT what the One, True and Apostolic Holy Catholic Church teaches. Since you claim you were once a Catholic, why would you ask such a question?
This does not say salvation occurs first. It says that we are God's workmanship created in Jesus (as Creator of all) which should be obvious. We are all created in His image. This does not say salvation before works.
The order of Judgement is also our particular Judgement first (which some Protestants think that they can get out of), and then the general Judgement in which the goats and the sheep are separated. There is not any amount of SS evidence to say that things are otherwise.
“NOTHING shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus.”
So that leaves you free to rape, murder, commit arson and KNOW that you are saved? What a sad, heretical false view of the Good News.
I think this is a helpful way to state it. When you think about it, since we aren't in Heaven yet - as long as we're alive - we aren't experiencing the "saved" part as yet. In other words, we will have eternal life when we die - and get a new body to live it in. We can be SURE of eternal life right now because that is God's promise to all those who accept his grace through faith. But the going to Heaven part is when we die - or are "taken up". We are saved "unto good works" which God has for ordained that we should walk in them but we are certainly NOT saved BY those good works. A woman doesn't become "more" pregnant by the passage of time, just bigger!
It happens each year during the Holy Thursday liturgy.
Thank you , boatbums. I did not think I was being obtuse. It was pretty clear, or so I thought!
“You expect us to keep up with the tens of thousands of sects in the anti-Catholic realm?”
The two main schools of Protestant thought are Calvinism and Arminianism, not *thousands*.
Here are a couple links that briefly summarize the two positions. Most churches I’m aware of fall far more into the Arminian camp. In my experience, Calvinism is in the minority.
http://www.the-highway.com/compare.html
http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/calvinarminian.htm
Notice the passage: For I am persuaded, that NEITHER DEATH, NOR LIFE, NOR ANGELS, NOR PRINCIPALITIES, NOR POWERS, NOR THINGS PRESENT, NOR THINGS TO COME, NOR HEIGHT, NOR DEPTH, NOR ANY OTHER CREATURE, shall be ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD." (Rom. 8:34-39).
Paul is persuaded that God never gives up on us. Since Paul preaches continuously the HOPE of Christ's salvation, he is also preaching that each man may lose his salvation, based upon his own actions or inactions.
Philippians 3: 7 (But) whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss 7 because of Christ. 8 More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith 10 to know him and the power of his resurrection and (the) sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death, 11 if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 8 It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, 9 but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus). 13 Brothers, I for my part do not consider myself to have taken possession. Just one thing: forgetting what lies behind but straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I continue my pursuit toward the goal, the prize of God's upward calling, in Christ Jesus.
Paul takes pursuit; he strives; he hopes and hopes that 'somehow' he will be resurrected. Nothing shall separate a man from God, except the man. Paul understood this very very well and that is a large part of the Gospel that he preaches. Pauls' gospel, which is divided by heretics and only partially preached by the Paulians and the Paulicians of the first millennium and rightly condemned by the Church.
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affections on THINGS ABOVE, NOT ON THINGS ON THE EARTH.
FOR YE ARE DEAD, AND YOUR LIFE IS HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD." (Col. 3:1-3).
My life is hid with Christ in God. Who can take my salvation from me? Who can undo that which is DONE? They would have to go THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND GOD to get my life. It's safely hidden away.
“And yet, as long as we live on this earth, we are in our earthly bodies. What does that matter to anything?”
Well, if you rape or kill, that matters, no?
” Who can take my salvation from me? Who can undo that which is DONE? “
Well, you can. Your free will. Can you not now REJECT that gift freely given to you by God?
So I’ve been told. I don’t recall going to that particular service.
“The two main schools of Protestant thought are Calvinism and Arminianism,...”
Are they mutually exclusive? What about the Mormons? The Unitarians? The Lutherans who now want gay clergy or women clergy or divorce, abortion and other such oddities? What about the many “minor” schools that reject one or more of the truthes accepted by the “main schools”? How about the Orthodox?
It was addressed to a specific individual, that’s why I asked such a question.
Snort. Guffaw. LOL. What a fraud.
Riiiighttttt. Paul is “persuaded”. Paul was given his message by direct revelations from Jesus Christ. Yet he is just surmising. He is responsible, just as Moses was responsible for the Words God gave to them. They did not guess their way through anything, Mark. Your problem is you don’t want to see what you don’t want to see. Believe as you will, you will be judged “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to “MY GOSPEL”. (Romans 2:16). You might want to give Paul a little respect in his epistles, since he is the MY GOSPEL you will be judged by. Please tell Christ in that day that Paul was just being conceited, talking about HIS GOSPEL and that he was just surmising that God didn’t mean that neither our life or our death could keep us from His love. Please let Him know that you are SURE this is so, because it’s been taught in YOUR CHURCH for 2000 years. Please do.
To lie or hate, does that matter?
Tell me then, if you lie, hate, kill, does it matter (if you are “saved”)?
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