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To: B-Chan
A metaphysical point: no such thing as a rigorous, objective proof exists, nor can exist.

But within our 4-dimensional universe, the scientific method and quantification of proof can and does work. Setting the metaphysics aside, of course.

If I go to my upper management and propose a project, I must supply objective proof that the project is not only feasible but cost effective and will provide a return and final condition that meets with corporate rules. I cannot simply say that this is the project however I cannot prove anything, so just gimme the authorization and the money.

At the same time, one must also look at this methodology as useful to everyday life. We have Kevin Trudeau renting half hour blocks of time hocking every kind of snake oil in every field from medical to financial and every six months comes up with a new kind of snake oil.

Finally, a hypothesis is not a fact; it is a "best guess", accepted or rejected by te scientific community base upon subjective reasons. A widely-accepted hypothesis may in fact be partially or entirely wrong.

Negative. A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for an observable phenomenon. It is a proposal. It should be framed in such a way so as to be falsifiable - in other words to be able to be proved wrong. The hypothesis that space aliens exist is framed oppositely to what it should be. This hypothesis is incapable of being proved wrong.

In other words, "If I cain't poke it with a stick, it ain't real." This is a statement of faith, not of fact — yet it lies behind the entire Western scientific enterprise.

If space aliens exist, can we not poke them with a stick? Can we not see, measure, and otherwise interact with them? The claim is that they exist in our current reality. Therefore they ought to be able to be dealt with in our current reality.

The scientific method works great in practical situations. Without it, bridges don't get built, lasers don't shine, medicine doesn't fight disease. It can be a useful map for navigating reality. But let's not make the mistake of confusing the map with the territory.

Of course not. Yet we are being asked to purchase a pig in a poke. I will not put myself in the position to say that there are no space aliens. I simply don't know. The ones who claim that they exist still have the burden of proof. Same as those who claim that chelation therapy for autistics or peach pits for cancer actually work. You claim it; you prove it.

145 posted on 07/10/2010 2:44:57 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
But within our 4-dimensional universe, the scientific method and quantification of proof can and does work. Setting the metaphysics aside, of course.

But one can't set metaphysics aside. Metaphysics is the science of reason itself. If reason is set aside, nothing makes sense.

I'm not claiming that space aliens exist, by the way. (I think it's possible but unlikely.) My point is that it is impossible to objectively prove any claim. One cannot say "the sky is blue"; the best one can do is say "the phenomenon I refer to as 'the sky' appeared to me to be reflecting light of a wavelength of 440 nm at a given time and under given conditions".

148 posted on 07/10/2010 3:36:13 PM PDT by B-Chan
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To: MarkBsnr
Setting the metaphysics aside, of course.

Just curious...how does a Christian set aside the metaphysical? Isn't it the metaphysical that is reality...and our physical/sensory perception which is the lie?

167 posted on 07/10/2010 5:22:34 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: MarkBsnr
Oops...should have included reference.

2 Corinthians 5:7

KJV -- (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Vulgate -- Per fidem enim ambulamus et non per speciem (same thing)


169 posted on 07/10/2010 5:33:39 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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