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To: kosta50
No translator is utterly free of some bias but when “before Abraham” becomes:
“What Yeshua actually meant was, “Before Abraham comes into being (at his resurrection unto eternal life), I will.”,
I think translation has disappeared altogether.

“The mood is infinitive, cyc”

I'm no great student of Greek (I'll save all the trouble of saying that's obvious)’ but why infinitive?

“A Catholic might argue the same thing but for quite different reasons.”

In the Catholic teaching of the trinity there are three persons in one Godhead, Father, Son, Spirit.

So which of the three persons was speaking to Moses at Ex. 3:14?

Father? Son? Spirit? All three? Two out of three?

You see what I'm asking?

I take Ps. 2 as prophetic of the Christ, of Jesus, since I accept that he was the Christ. But if a person doesn't believe any of the Bible is prophetic then even a cursory reading is a waste of time.
Father? So

527 posted on 07/12/2010 11:03:55 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
I think translation has disappeared altogether

I see your point, but they justify this by grammatical rules. In other words, it can't be translated word-for-word, literally, but grammatically correct. I think most people take the middle road—if for no other reason than for the ease of reading—sometimes stretching the rules and sometimes opting for a more literal translation for a variety of reasons (doctrinal, personal taste, etc.).

I'm no great student of Greek (I'll save all the trouble of saying that's obvious)’ but why infinitive?

Because of the ending -mai. :) But it is difficult to argue that genesthai of John 8:58 should be interpreted as past tense any more than eimi should, when we have Matthew 24:6, Mark 1:17, Luke 9:36, John 1:12, John 13:19, etc. to suggest otherwise.

In the Catholic teaching of the trinity there are three persons in one Godhead, Father, Son, Spirit. So which of the three persons was speaking to Moses at Ex. 3:14? Father? Son? Spirit? All three? Two out of three?

The Creed leaves no doubt that it had to be the Holy Spirit ("he spoke through the Prophets").

I take Ps. 2 as prophetic of the Christ, of Jesus, since I accept that he was the Christ. But if a person doesn't believe any of the Bible is prophetic then even a cursory reading is a waste of time. Father? So.

For one, verse 7 makes no sense in that context (remember also this is supposed to be David's writing): "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son..." Who is saying this? Jesus?

Not to say anything of verse 9 "9'You shall break them with a rod of iron, you shall shatter them like earthenware.'"

How Christ-like is that?

533 posted on 07/12/2010 12:23:46 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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