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To: kosta50; xzins; count-your-change; Quix; betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg
Jesus only claims he was around before Moses.

To the contrary,

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. – John 17:5

Based on our past conversations I expect you now to come back and say that Jesus only claims He was around 4 billion or 13.7 billion years depending on how you read the word "world."

On another point:

me: And again,

I and [my] Father are one. – John 10:30

you: Wonderful, what about "my Father is greater than I"? (same John, different chapter)

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. And they are different Persons.

The Father is not begotten. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:14

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. - John 1:18

And again,

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

And again,

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne. - Revelation 4:2

And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. - Revelation 4:9-11

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. – Revelation 5:6

You claim that God never says anything like that, i.e. I AM.

To the contrary,

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. – Revelation 1:8

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last... - Revelation 1:11

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. - Revelation 21:6

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. - Revelation 22:13

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. – Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. – John 8:58

As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. – John 18:6

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

God's Name is I AM.

484 posted on 07/11/2010 10:29:44 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

without getting into another whole-blown discussion of the Trinity, your understanding of the unity of the Godhead is on the money. It’s combining the triunity with the unity that’s always a stickler. :>)


486 posted on 07/11/2010 10:34:23 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Alamo-Girl
John 17:5

Saying he was with the Father is one thing; saying he is the same God of Ex 3:14 is not the same.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. And they are different Persons

Different and lesser is not the same. Jesus says that he one but also that he is lesser than the Father.

The Father is not begotten. Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father...In the beginning was the Word

John 1:1 says nothing about begetting, but rather states that "in the beginning [sic]" the Word (not the Son) was towards God and was God. Rather verse 1:14 seems to suggest that the only-begotten Son referrs to Jesus and not the eternal Word prior to incarnation.

You claim that God never says anything like that, i.e. I AM. To the contrary...I am Alpha and Omega...

That's not the same as just I AM (both cpaitalized).

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. – Exodus 3:14

He says no such thing in Hebrew or in Greek. Only in your English language Bible.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. – John 8:58

You don't get it, do you?

As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. – John 18:6

Another one of John's transparencies. If that is so, then why did they have to get false witnesses to testify against Jesus in front of Sanhedrin? They had witnesses right there and then!!!

Besides, you don't think they would have arrested him if they believed he was God, do you?

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me...

I am God and just I am are not one and the same thing. You are pulling at straws. Angel Gabriel says ego eimi (I am) Gabriel! Does that mean he is God?

503 posted on 07/11/2010 11:42:57 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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