Posted on 05/08/2010 9:30:27 PM PDT by GonzoII
No, it doesn’t. If you look, you’ll see more than you might think. Pliny, for instance, makes reference to deaconesses and apparently to the sacrament of the altar (without realizing it).
Deacons are the least offensive office between factions - Everyone accepts that the office of deacon is Biblically valid, and that office is largely the same all the way across.
I would take exception to the idea that Pliny refers " apparently to the sacrament of the altar (without realizing it)." The reference is vague, stating only that after a service, the Christians would depart and go somewhere else to eat together. It could just as easily defend the long custom in many families of going out to breakfast at a diner after Sunday service.
Medieval Sourcebook: Pliny on the Christians
Many people today forget that Acts itself speaks of bishops (Apostles), presbyters (priests) and deacons. That in itself implies a highly structured church on the episcopal level.
No, Acts describes bishops (head elder), presbyters (elders), and deacons. Elders are a fairly normal construct in both Greek and more importantly, Hebrew communities, and do not speak to an ornate hierarchy, but to a simple one.
Also, Pliny makes clear that even after more than 70 years the Romans still did not understand what Christianity was about, who was involved or how it worked on the ground (maybe “underground” should be the word used there). Christians were often secretive. The Romans couldn’t write about what they didn’t know.
I find that to lean more toward my position - A rigid hierarchy would be easy to detect and destroy, while a simple structure is more fluid, and hard to define.
And the fact that Rome didn't understand also points away from an ornate hierarchical structure - something which was very common in Roman religions of every type. That priests are not mentioned is odd, especially from a Roman perspective, see? .
“Why do you think Martin Luther was excommunicated?”
1. Because he translated the bible into a language the common person could read.
2. Because he threatened the political power of the Catholic Church.
3. Because he had a problem with the Catholic Church requiring cash payments so the priests would ‘forgive’ peoples sins.
Actually there were a few more but whose counting.
Oh, yeah. My son says I’m a sissy! ROFL!
Yes.
What other strategy is left when you post their own documents showing the error they have fallen into. The last recourse is to condemn you and try to censor your views.
FWIW, I have found your posts very persuasive especially #58.
Another wholly unprovable point (apostolic succession).
Care to share them?
SnakeDoc
I was trying to hit the high points.
No. I’m busy. Would you like me to ping you to the next 10-20 I answer?
I was going to post LOL but honestly it really isn’t funny at all, its very sad.
“Another wholly unprovable point (apostolic succession).”
Why should it even matter? Jesus was sent for all of us that accept him as our savior. Not just for those who claim to have some spurious connection.
Sad in which way?
I don’t need citations ... off the top of your head will do. What type of Protestant-made statements do you consider bigoted?
SnakeDoc
I guess I’m just a simpleton. I listen to the holy spirit when I read the Word of God. As a believer, I have faith its just that easy.
Being less likely to avoid the Apocrypha than my brethren, I can still readily attest that this particularly (the prayers for the dead) is one of many problems pointing to the Hellenization of the Apocryphal books. It is also why they are absent from the Masoretic texts.
Why are some people more preoccupied with a source than with the content of the post? Reads as though they seek to target the source than the content of the post.
“I listen to the holy spirit when I read the Word of God. As a believer, I have faith its just that easy.”
I hear ya, but some want us to think its a difficult thing. If Jesus is our King then we have no use for others. That is a threat to political power.
Ya King Henry VIII might of had it right after all. Then again, maybe it was God.
No. I’m busy. Would you like me to ping you to the next 10-20 I answer?
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