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To: count-your-change
By the 13th and 14th century Catholicism had a number of splinter groups, heretical in the eyes of the authorities but purer in their Catholic belief than the rest by their own lights.

And these were few and far between.

Not necessarily, there was plenty of craziness going on under the rubric Catholic that we can find precedent there for Jones and Koresh and this long before the Reformation.

Do you have examples?

Was the Reformation successful? Only to some degree as the reformers thought they could do just that.. reform the way the management ran the enterprise rather than question whether it was legitimate in the first instance.

Since the Church was founded by Christ and He promised that He would be with it always, how legitimate is the questioning of its validity?

None the three has ever tried to put a torch to my feet and the past willingness of the Catholic church to do so when it had the ability tells me that last statement is utter nonsense.

Hmm. The main Reform groups, with the exception of the Baptists were rather bloody, themselves. The history of early Protestantism in the United States is rather fascinating.

Where is the speaking to the moral depravity that cried out for a reformation? It's there in those history books. And the latest $2 billion plus clergy scandal shows that novelty may not always be bad.

Certainly the moral depravity was there then and is now. You may have noticed my posts on the subject of the USCCB and a number of its bishops. But the Church's policy is to be morally correct even though many of its officials are not. You may have noticed that we have not changed our stance on, for instance, abortion for nearly 2000 years.

2,276 posted on 05/07/2010 1:30:58 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
If the splinter groups were so few and far between I would wonder why the inquisition ever was prosecuted.

I named but a few but I'm certain you could easily locate many more. I mentioned the gruesome Flagellants’ practice,
And then were earlier the Circumcellions, sort of ‘death oriented’ mind.

The ancient nation of Israel had a corrupt and indifferent religious leadership too. Not every single individual, of course but as a class they were a cut below the harlots and tax collectors Jesus said. (Matt. 21:31)

They were in a covenant with God! and had been for centuries, they were Abraham's children and had written the what was the Scriptures at the time, preserved it, interpreted it, and had their traditions long established.

Sounds familiar. Yet God could tell Moses He would wipe out the whole nation of rebels and keep His promises, His covenant through Moses. (Num. 14:12)
Children of Abraham? John the Baptist said God could raise children to Abraham from the stones. (Matt. 3:8) And they near to getting the ax.

One could reason that claims mean nothing and that what was destroyed in 70 A.D. was no longer His nation. There's a lesson to gleaned from the example of that nation.

I would venture it was their policy to be morally correct too, problem is, they weren't.

“You may have noticed that we have not changed our stance on, for instance, abortion for nearly 2000 years.”

“The Catholic Church has not relaxed her strict prohibition of all abortion; but, as we have seen above, she has made it more definite. As to the penalties she inflicts upon the guilty parties, her present legislation was fixed by the Bull of Pius IX “Apostolicae Sedis”. It decrees excommunication — that is, deprivation of the Sacraments and of the Prayers of the Church in the case of any of her members, and other privations besides in the case of clergymen — against all who seek to procure abortion, if their action produces the effect. Penalties must always be strictly interpreted. Therefore, while anyone who voluntarily aids in procuring abortion, in any way whatever, does morally wrong, only those incur the excommunication who themselves actually and efficaciously procure the abortion.”

But are Catholics who procure, perform, aid, advocate, accept, help to legalize, ad infinitum, abortions excommunicated and otherwise sanctioned or is it just a ‘morally correct stance’?

2,308 posted on 05/07/2010 5:11:58 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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