Novelty indeed, unless one has that very special leather belt hanging in their closet.
“Is there any doubt that Jim Jones (The People's Temple) or David Koresh (Branch Davidians) was a logical and expected development of the thinking that came from the Reformation?”
Not necessarily, there was plenty of craziness going on under the rubric Catholic that we can find precedent there for Jones and Koresh and this long before the Reformation.
Was the Reformation successful? Only to some degree as the reformers thought they could do just that.. reform the way the management ran the enterprise rather than question whether it was legitimate in the first instance.
That the Reformation nourished a greater freedom to investigate the Scriptures is probably its most valuable legacy.
“Regarless of what the Reformation was protesting against, a separate topic, the results of the Reformation have given us the LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Heaven's Gate.”
None the three has ever tried to put a torch to my feet and the past willingness of the Catholic church to do so when it had the ability tells me that last statement is utter nonsense.
“Already have. We can speak to the motivations of certain individuals, we can speak to the motivations of those that made it succeed, we can speak to the rewards of those in power afterwards, and we can speak to the modern results of the Reformation.”
Where is the speaking to the moral depravity that cried out for a reformation? It's there in those history books.
And the latest $2 billion plus clergy scandal shows that novelty may not always be bad.
And these were few and far between.
Not necessarily, there was plenty of craziness going on under the rubric Catholic that we can find precedent there for Jones and Koresh and this long before the Reformation.
Do you have examples?
Was the Reformation successful? Only to some degree as the reformers thought they could do just that.. reform the way the management ran the enterprise rather than question whether it was legitimate in the first instance.
Since the Church was founded by Christ and He promised that He would be with it always, how legitimate is the questioning of its validity?
None the three has ever tried to put a torch to my feet and the past willingness of the Catholic church to do so when it had the ability tells me that last statement is utter nonsense.
Hmm. The main Reform groups, with the exception of the Baptists were rather bloody, themselves. The history of early Protestantism in the United States is rather fascinating.
Where is the speaking to the moral depravity that cried out for a reformation? It's there in those history books. And the latest $2 billion plus clergy scandal shows that novelty may not always be bad.
Certainly the moral depravity was there then and is now. You may have noticed my posts on the subject of the USCCB and a number of its bishops. But the Church's policy is to be morally correct even though many of its officials are not. You may have noticed that we have not changed our stance on, for instance, abortion for nearly 2000 years.
Amen...and I truly believe that our Lord permitted this to happen because of the condition of the organization that claimed all under its wings. It had forgotten to allow the chicks to grow and to feed on the "Bread of Life" without it having to be reguritated first.