According to the Bible Jesus was raised by God. How does that make him God? Obviously his Resurrection could not have been part of his "God-ness." It was only later that the Church changed the biblical words of St. Paul (1 Cor 15:4) in the Creed by stating that he rose from the dead, "And rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures," to harmonize it in accord with the dogmatic pronouncements of the first and second Ecumenical Councils centuries later (325 and 381 AD).
Paul considered Jesus closer to a Platonic ideal man "in the form" (Gr. morphe – external appearance, ergo not in nature or essence!) of God" and asserts that "for us there is but one God, the Father...and one Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Cor 8:6), clearly distinguishing the two as not one and the same.
As for the miracles, that was given to him, as it was later given to his human disciples who could heal with their shadow and raise people from the dead. So, miracles are also not an indication of Jesus' "God-ness" as you say.
In addition to that, the Resurrected Jesus admits that only the Father (i.e. God) knows the future (Acts 1:7), thereby admitting his "man-ness," rather than his "God-ness."
The account of Jesus Transformation (Matthew 17, Mark 9, Luke 9) on Mount Tabor also denies his "God-ness," until then (and then it was only what was to come in the future).
Even though John has Thomas saying, "My lord and my God." (John 20:28), after inserting his fingers into Jesus' wounds (which means his glorified body would be imperfect!), in that very same chapter John's has this same divine Jesus call the Father his God (John 20:17)! God calling God his God? But this self-contradicting inerpolational witness is typical of John*.
*[NB for more on John's Gospel I recommend Robert M. Grant's "The Gospel of John" analysis. Grant has been a bible scholar at the U. of Chicago for over 30 years]
The New Testament account portrays Jesus as a man (think of his prayer in Gethsemane) who knows he is God's favorite who is greater than men, but definitely lesser than God (cf. John 14:28). The two greatest Apostles, Peter for example, refer to Jesus as a man even after his Resurrection (Acts 4:10), as does Paul (Romans 5:15, 1 Tim 2:5), who also asserts that God is higher than Christ ("man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." – 1 Cor 11:3)
Paul even suggests in the Phillipians that Christ was made in the likeness of men (Phil 2:7) and calls him the firstborn of all creation, i.e. a creature (Colosians 1:15).
This suggests that many early Christians, including obviously Peter and Paul, believed he was a man, who in the best case was made divine only after the Resurrection, and even that is questionable. Consider that some of his own 11 remaining disciples, who saw knew the Resurrected Jesus doubted him to the last day! (cf Mat 28:17)
Thus all references to Jesus as a man, even a celestial ideal Platonic man, still portrays him as a creature. Even in his external appearance of God (an image of God, but not God), he was never worshiped by the apostles (except in the manner appropriate for earthly lords, cf Mat 28:17).
This flies in the face of the dogmatic Christian beliefs. The Incarnation and the miraculous birth are thereby put in question (cf Gal 4:4), for he was "born of a woman according to the Law."
In adiditon tot hat the Biblical accounts strongly suggests two contradicting beliefs regarding Jesus late divinization, suggests Jesus was adopted (made divine) either after his baptism or after his resurrection (Luke associates resurrection with Psalm 2:7 "You are my son, today I have begotten you"). And this tells us that early Christians did not believe in Incarnation or the miraculous birth of Jesus.
However, this also stands in stark contrast to John's latter-day Gospel account written some 66 years after Christ (c. 99 AD), when all the other eyewitnesses were already dead and with Christianity in dire straits, who launches a novel idea that Jesus is the eternal divine Logos who became flesh (cf John 1:1, 1:14).
There's no wonder it took the Church some 300 years to synchronize the story and choreograph the faith. Save for for John, The NT does not portray earthly Jesus as divine, or being Incarnate.
That's how I see it, for what it's worth. I am ready, I have my flak jacket and my Kevlar pot on. :)
First time I’ve felt like replying to you on this particular thread. There have been many, many brilliant posts and I have been reading them all and learning a lot. I think I have come to the point where I won’t bother reading YOUR posts anymore because you have not said anything but the same over and over and over again. We get it, you don’t believe in what you can’t see, hear, taste, touch or smell.
I thank God for the posts of faithful, loving, genuine people who do so out of love and not pride.
Kosta is on to something here. Why must Jesus = God the Father? Lord is Adonai. Jehovah = "the existing One". Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation". Kyrios is Lord in Greek (NT).
This idea is carried on throughout the NT. 1Cor 1:3 says: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and [the] Lord Jesus Christ (Darby Translation)
Clearly, there is a distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ recognized by the writers of the NT. If they were inspired then they are writing what God wants.
Mat 1:20 says: but while he pondered on these things, behold, an angel of [the] Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, fear not to take to [thee] Mary, thy wife, for that which is begotten in her is of [the] Holy Spirit. (Darby Translation)
Lord here is Kyrios again, but the angelic messenger is of Kyrios showing that Jesus is already God or a God.
If monotheism is not the goal, might God the Father be the Most High God and Jesus Christ, like us an heir, an equal heir thereby being equal to God the Father, but a separate person?
Why is monotheism a requirement for the attribute of God? The OT seems to indicate not a fight between monotheism v. polytheism, but between true God and dumb idols, no?
The natural man cannot discern spiritual matters at all. His worldview is a reduction of "all that there is" - e.g. physical reality - his hammer is sensory perception and reasoning.
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:5-11
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. – Galatians 1:11-12
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Cor 10:1-4
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – I Cor 12:3
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. – John 1:10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: - Colossians 1:16
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; - Hebrews 1:1-3
And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. – Mark 1:23-24
And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him. – Mark 1:34
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. – Mark 3:11
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. – Mark 5:7
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ. – Luke 4:41
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. – Luke 8:28