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To: Zionist Conspirator

While I don’t have time to discuss your opinion on a point by point basis, I can say this:

1. The Church does not recognize the Torah as such. It recognizes the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) as an integral part of the complete scriptural Word of God, which is the whole revelation of Truth.

2. Christianity is not centered upon Scripture. It is centered upon the Person of Jesus Christ, who claimed to be the I AM and demonstrated it by healing the sick and lame, raising the dead, controlling the weather, transmuting matter, forgiving sin in His own right, establishing a Church and imbuing it with infallibility, and by bodily and physically returning from the dead in front of hundreds of eyewitnesses. It was only after His ascension into Heaven (again, in front of eyewitnesses) that His followers began to record His earthly words and deeds; later, these were collected into a series of writings which His Church deemed to be the completion of the written Word of God. It was during the course of compiling these Scriptures that the learned men of the Church carefully mapped out and noted how our the various circumstances of our Lord’s life, death, and resurrection were the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures.

In other words: Man met God face to face in the Person of Jesus. It was only through meeting Him that Man is able to understand what the Hebrew Scriptures really meant when prophesying of the Messiah.

The fulfillment of the Torah is a Man, and that Man is also God, in the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, He who conquered the grave, Death and Hell. In the end, all human history, all life, and existence itself centers upon Him.


232 posted on 12/17/2009 10:51:08 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
1. The Church does not recognize the Torah as such. It recognizes the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) as an integral part of the complete scriptural Word of God, which is the whole revelation of Truth.

I understand this position, though I believe it to be in error. Again, a thousand years before there was a Church, G-d spoke authoritatively at Sinai. That Revelation must clearly authorize any further "revelation" that is to come.

2. Christianity is not centered upon Scripture. It is centered upon the Person of Jesus Christ, who claimed to be the I AM and demonstrated it by healing the sick and lame, raising the dead, controlling the weather, transmuting matter, forgiving sin in His own right, establishing a Church and imbuing it with infallibility, and by bodily and physically returning from the dead in front of hundreds of eyewitnesses. It was only after His ascension into Heaven (again, in front of eyewitnesses) that His followers began to record His earthly words and deeds; later, these were collected into a series of writings which His Church deemed to be the completion of the written Word of God. It was during the course of compiling these Scriptures that the learned men of the Church carefully mapped out and noted how our the various circumstances of our Lord’s life, death, and resurrection were the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures.

And I understand this as well, though the "learned men of the Church" must ultimately be authorized by the prior Revelation in order for their own claims to be valid. However, I want you to understand that I appreciate that you have an external authority that authorizes your belief in the "new testament." I am currently arguing with a Fundamentalist Protestant--culturally the group that I identify with and whom I defend like a lion on this forum (and I will continue to do so). But they have no reason whatsoever for believing their bible other than it's their bible. The bible is self-authorizing and self-authenticating, and the only reason the "book of mormon" isn't is that Fundamentalist Protestants didn't grow up believing the "book of mormon" as well. I've even pointed out to the one I'm arguing with that the King James Version originally had the Apocryphal books. What do you think he will say? I am 99.99999% certain that he well claim that G-d saw to it that they were eventually removed so as to leave the "real" bible, which just happens to be the one he grew up believing. What say you?

In other words: Man met God face to face in the Person of Jesus. It was only through meeting Him that Man is able to understand what the Hebrew Scriptures really meant when prophesying of the Messiah.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe the idea that religious truth can be determined from its aesthetic beauty. However aesthetically pleasing chr*stianity may be and however internally consistent its theology (and I personally find Fundamentalist Protestant the most internally consistent in theology of all chr*stian groups, however circular their logic in determining their bible), but this does not constitute proof of authenticity. The First Revelation by the nature of things becomes the "Ultimate Revelation" by which all later claimants are measured. In short, Divine Revelation is, and must be, regressive rather than progressive in nature, else there would be no end to the "dispensations" and "religions" G-d was using.

The fulfillment of the Torah is a Man, and that Man is also God, in the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, He who conquered the grave, Death and Hell. In the end, all human history, all life, and existence itself centers upon Him.

See my above remarks. Thank you. It's very nice to argue with someone whose reasoning is not a self-reinforcing Moebius strip.

303 posted on 12/17/2009 3:53:38 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vaya`an Yosef 'et-Par`oh le'mor bil`aday; 'Eloqim ya`aneh 'et-shelom Par`oh.)
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