Iscool, I agree. The Greek word for "church" is called-out ones -- people (vs. an institutional approach to understanding the Church).
...He commands His Apostles and their successors to Baptize all the Nations [Narses]
Iscool's rest of response: Well, you're wrong again...There aren't any succesors to the Apostles...Getting baptized doesn't make one a Christian...Turning to God makes one a Christian...Baptism comes afterward...What sad is you don't seem to know this...
OK, Iscool, after agreeing w/you on the above, I guess I don't understand what's so wrong about Narses saying that Jesus commands his leaders to go and baptize all nations? When you respond that Narses was "wrong" you're not militating vs. the poster, but Jesus Himself...perhaps you need a Bible refresher?
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matt. 28:18-20)
(If you have a problem, Iscool, with Jesus as Commissioner of His Church...just say so...don't pretend that you're simply trumping another poster...and if you're an Evangelical like I am, your response above is pretty embarrassing)
Baptism comes afterward...What sad is you don't seem to know this...
At least twice in the New Testament, faith/belief preceded baptism (Gal. 3:26-27; Acts 18:8);
...at least twice, the message was received first, and baptism ensued (Acts 2:41; 8:37)
...and 3-4 times people received the Holy Spirit, and THEN were baptized (Acts 10:47; 11:16-17; 9:5-6, 17-18;)
...yet, the NT & early church history doesn't stop there; it adds...
...Jesus told Saul to be baptized and THEN call on His Name (Acts 22:16);
...and 3-4 times whole households were baptized simultaneously even when perhaps ONLY the parents expressed faith -- as these baptisms likely included children and perhaps infants (1 Cor. 1:16; Acts 16:14-15, 33)...making this family dynamic less individualistically 'decisions for Christ' than you'd like to present it;
The Acts 16 example is prominent: We know Lydia believed first and was baptized, but how can you conclusively say the same thing of her household?
One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. "If you consider me a believer in the Lord," she said, "come and stay at my house." And she persuaded us. (Acts 16:14-15)
Acts 16 says very specifically that "The Lord opened HER heart" -- not her family's heart or "their" hearts.
We don't know that...It doesn't say...But other verses in the scripture pretty much let us know...
At least twice in the New Testament, faith/belief preceded baptism (Gal. 3:26-27; Acts 18:8);
...at least twice, the message was received first, and baptism ensued (Acts 2:41; 8:37)
...and 3-4 times people received the Holy Spirit, and THEN were baptized (Acts 10:47; 11:16-17; 9:5-6, 17-18;)
I'm trying to make sense of your criticism here...You seem to agree that baptsim is always after repentance/belief...And that's exactly what I have been saying...In addition, it's the belief that gets you saved, not the baptism...
But then when you get beyond the milk of the word, you can learn that the true baptism is immersion in Jesus, not water...
.. Jesus told Saul to be baptized and THEN call on His Name (Acts 22:16)
You are mistaken and that embarrasses me...
Act 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me,
Paul knew who the Lord was and he submitted himself to the Lord's will before he regained his sight and was baptized...In other words, Paul became a believer, first...
...and 3-4 times whole households were baptized simultaneously even when perhaps ONLY the parents expressed faith -- as these baptisms likely included children and perhaps infants (1 Cor. 1:16; Acts 16:14-15, 33)...making this family dynamic less individualistically 'decisions for Christ' than you'd like to present it;
Perhaps and likely don't cut it...Perhaps Jesus was a rock star afterall...
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
This person's entire family got preached to, obviously believed as they were told (and of course that would exclude anyone who was too young to understand ) and then they were saved...
You can't add perhaps and likely to the scriptures and come away with the truth...Just as you can't add the perpetual virginity of Mary and come away with the truth...
REPENT and be baptized...