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To: CottShop; js1138; betty boop
Thank you both for your replies and for sharing your insights!

The only theory I've heard of how information [Shannon, successful communications] might have evolved disclosed upfront the difficulty of autonomy and the physics of symbols [Rocha, Pattee.] It proposed an RNA world in which the organism must toggle between autonomous to communicate internally and non-autonomous to gather messages. But it was very sketchy and had no theories for the rise of an RNA world where the messages are floating around to be cherry-picked nor how the organism would achieve autonomy much less toggle back and forth. And of course there was no theory for the origin of the messages.

Even so, the issue of inverse causality remains, how it can know of something which has not yet happened, e.g. the need for maintenance and repair, especially autonomously. The messages floating around would have to be quite "informed."

Getting back to that single celled organism, the amoeba...

Like every "thing" in space/time, it is subject to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It must pay the thermodynamic tab.

So naturally we might ask how it accomplishes this feat to delay the inevitable?

And for the answer, we again turn to successful communication - as long as the amoeba is successfully communicating it is paying the thermodynamic tab.

467 posted on 01/30/2009 11:47:27 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
So naturally we might ask how it accomplishes this feat to delay the inevitable?

It makes backup copies. Self replication occurs in rather low level chemistry, as discussed in the video I linked. Doesn't require a genome or DNA or RNA.

468 posted on 01/30/2009 11:50:51 AM PST by js1138
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To: Alamo-Girl

[[Even so, the issue of inverse causality remains, how it can know of something which has not yet happened, e.g. the need for maintenance and repair, especially autonomously.]]

And I think htis is the important point- the ‘foreknoewledge’ so to speak- the fact that this info must already be present at perhaps am ore ocmplex stage than most others

[[The messages floating around would have to be quite “informed.”]]

Indeed it would-


479 posted on 01/30/2009 9:57:50 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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