What's So Great about Catholicism? (here is the top 10)

Inside Catholic ^ | January 21, 2009 | H. W. Crocker III

[annalex]

That thief hanging beside Christ upon the Cross was 'saved' without ever entering a church.

The Church did not begin her existence till the descent of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost (Acts 2). However, as a model of Catholic laity, the Good Thief is a fitting example: he repented of his sin, accepted his punishment, grew in virtue as he defended the innocently accused and defended the Lord against blasphemy, was baptized by his suffering, and asked Christ to bless him.

The story of the Good Thief serves another purpose as well: it shows that some people are prevented from receiving a baptism and can be saved extraordinarily. Likewise, if someone cannot receive the sacraments of the Church because of a physical impediment, the sacraments will be brought to him, or if for some reason that cannot be done either, he should not despair of his salvation in the Church despite the physical separation.

it was to be the churches job to teach this gospel

That is not the only job. The Church was told to proclaim the gospel and to baptize (Mark 16:15-16), to forgive sins (John 20:21-23), to offer the Holy Eucharist (Luke 22:19), to legislate supremely (Matthew 18:18), to correct heresies (Luke 22:31-32), and generally to guide people to salvation (Matthew 18:19).

[Jaded]

Ah, yes, we should all be a Church Of One. Make the rules up as we go along, don’t bother with those pesky commandments and other things we don’t like because they are outdated and make us feel bad.

How could one miss the admonition AGAINST that?

[annalex]

It is interesting that you refer to John 10 as you perdure in your heresy that Christ wanted denominations to be formed, rather than one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. John 10 (you read it?) indeed describes the Church as a pen for Christ’s own, but it does not imply a multiplicity of pens: “there shall be one fold and one shepherd” (John 10:16). In fact He refers to those outside of the pen as wolves who do no good.

[Just mythoughts]

The Church did not begin her existence till the descent of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost (Acts 2). However, as a model of Catholic laity, the Good Thief is a fitting example: he repented of his sin, accepted his punishment, grew in virtue as he defended the innocently accused and defended the Lord against blasphemy, was baptized by his suffering, and asked Christ to bless him. The story of the Good Thief serves another purpose as well: it shows that some people are prevented from receiving a baptism and can be saved extraordinarily. Likewise, if someone cannot receive the sacraments of the Church because of a physical impediment, the sacraments will be brought to him, or if for some reason that cannot be done either, he should not despair of his salvation in the Church despite the physical separation. it was to be the churches job to teach this gospel That is not the only job. The Church was told to proclaim the gospel and to baptize (Mark 16:15-16), to forgive sins (John 20:21-23), to offer the Holy Eucharist (Luke 22:19), to legislate supremely (Matthew 18:18), to correct heresies (Luke 22:31-32), and generally to guide people to salvation (Matthew 18:19).

And alll you quote in no way hands over to flesh man the power to save anyone. There are 7 churches identified as to what they teach and who finds 'favor' and who is left wanting. Christ is the key of David which no man shutteth and no man openeth, does your church teach this?

[annalex]

The Church teaches through the Holy Scripture, so it is important to read it every now and then.

Christ saves, through His Church. Yes, there were many local churches, and they remain, for the most part, in various stages of unity with the Roman Pontiff. The Catholic Church comprises over 20 local ones, plus the Orthodox, plus some pre-Chalcedon oriental ones. God bless them all; may the harvest increase and may more harvesters come.

[informavoracious]

Is this a Catholic Caucus thread? The haters are posting...

[annalex]

I haven’t had a nice ecumenical brawl for a while. Good thread.

[NYer]

“there shall be one fold and one shepherd” (John 10:16)

Note too that in 1 Timothy 3:15, St. Paul states that the Church is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." Since the Church alone is mentioned as the pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture. For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be exactly the same. There can only be one Spiritual Truth for the plural of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture.

[annalex]

Matthew 18:16 plainly shows that the Church is the court of last instance in disputes. If local churches taught different doctrines, Matthew 18:16 would not be possible.

“if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican”.

[Petronski]

Many deny there is even a thing called the Roman Catholic Church...

Many deny a lot of things. I am not impressed.

I have no problem with the RCC being a denomination...

You have no problem with falsehoods but deny the truth. That says it all.

Limiting the body of christ to any denomination IS HERESY...

So stop doing it.

[hosepipe]

[ Ah, yes, we should all be a Church Of One. Make the rules up as we go along, don’t bother with those pesky commandments and other things we don’t like because they are outdated and make us feel bad. ]

What are you commanding?.. demanding?.. or remanding?..

[hosepipe]

Actually he(Christ) calls them OUT OF the sheep pens.. into the pasture(Ps 23)..

[annalex]

That pasture is the “House of the Lord” (v.6)

[hosepipe]

You seem to overlook Romans ch 8.. the church is a spiritual entity.. for “You MUST be born again”- Jesus.. and then be called “OUT OF” the sheep pens( John ch10).. (EKlesia- i.e. church)..

[hosepipe]

[ That pasture is the “House of the Lord” (v.6) ]

Your point.... being what?.. You missed me with that..

[annalex]

That John 10 does not support your notion of multiple pens, and Psalm 22(23) does not support your notion that Christ calls us out of “the pen”.

[hosepipe]

[ That John 10 does not support your notion of multiple pens, and Psalm 22(23) does not support your notion that Christ calls us out of “the pen”. ]

Ps 23 supports the notion of a pasture with one Shepard.. as a metaphor.. i.e. sheep not penned up but grazing in peace with security..

John ch 10.. (Jesus words) speaks of "the" sheep pen.. using the synagogue as an example.. history supports multiple pens(christian) even multiple kinds of synagogues(at the time).. Unless you think Jesus was not prescient knowing of the future.. and spoke in lieu of the future.. The point being a denomination/church is in fact a synagogue.. Jesus never outlawed heresy.. Heresy is an invention of Men.. One sheep pen can (and do) see other sheep pens are heretical.. Witness "this thread"..

[annalex]

I stand by my 36: there is not scriptural support for conflicting doctrines or denominations in John 10, the Psalms, or anywhere else, and I explained why.

[hosepipe]

[ I stand by my 36: there is not scriptural support for conflicting doctrines or denominations in John 10, the Psalms, or anywhere else, and I explained why. ]

Thats fair.. I just disagree..

[NYer]

You seem to overlook Romans ch 8

The christians addressed in this letter were already members of the Church and had been "born again" through the Sacrament of Baptism. Paul's Letter to the Romans is a powerful exposition of the doctrine of the supremacy of Christ and of faith in Christ as the source of salvation. It is an implicit plea to the Christians at Rome, and to all Christians, to hold fast to that faith. They are to resist any pressure put on them to accept a doctrine of salvation through works of the law (see the note on Romans 10:4). At the same time they are not to exaggerate Christian freedom as an abdication of responsibility for others (Romans 12:1-2) or as a repudiation of God's law and will.

In John 10:16, Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church. And in John 17:11,21,23, Jesus prays that His followers may be perfectly one as He is one with the Father. Jesus' oneness with the Father is perfect. It can never be less. Thus, the oneness Jesus prays for cannot mean the varied divisions of Christianity that have resulted since the Protestant reformation. There is perfect oneness only in the Catholic Church.