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To: OLD REGGIE; NYer; wagglebee; mgist; netmilsmom
Obviously Catholics do not practice artificial birth control or make a decision not to reproduce.

I think it's time to ring some changes:

(1)The above is stated with a link to the Pew Report, that bastion of liberal truth, to argue against the contention that some Catholics leave the Church for denominations which are pro-choice on ABC and other reproductive issues.

The argument appears to be, there are Catholics who remain nominally Catholic while doing something the Church says they ought not to do. So none leave for denomination which do not forbid what they are doing.

I think the mere articulation shows that the argument doesn't work. But for those who don't get it, a sin does not mean that one has lost ALL virtue. So a Catholic who disagrees with the Church's teaching may find in himself enough integrity finally to quit "living a lie" and seek a denomination which suits his preconceptions. But there must be some who lack that integrity, and others who have it but are still screwing their courage to the sticking point, and are, thus, in process.

In other words, that some Catholics defy the Magisterium while remaining Catholic has nothing to do with the proposition that some Catholics become Protestants so that they are relieved of the obvious hypocrisy of calling themselves Catholic while disobeying Catholic teaching.

Anecdote related to point (1)

A friend was a devout and involved Episcopalian, but a former Catholic. He was divorced from the woman he married in the Catholic Church and then married a divorced woman who was a Methodist, and they both became Episcopalians.Then, and his first wife is still living, he married again.

Is the Church to be judged by his actions?

end of anecdote

(2) Now presumably, Protestants would consider that when Catholics disobey Church teaching on ABC they do so in spite of the Church. Such cases are a sign of the weakness of the Church, and are not attributed or blamed on the Church, as such.

But when other Catholics disobey the Church by making more of Mary than the Church teaches her to be, THAT is the fault of the Church.

So if there is a principle, it is when Catholics disobey that Church in a way Protestants like, that is THEIR virtue and cannot be attributed to the Church. BUT when Catholics disobey that Church in a way Protestants do NOT like, that is the Church's fault and she can under no circumstances dodge dodge blame for it.

Let me say it again. From our adversaries' point of view, if a Catholic does something which they like but against Church teaching , that is all about the individual. When A Catholic does something which they do not like but against Church teaching, that is the fault of the Church and the teaching. Disobedience absolve the one from the influence of the Church, but confirms the other to sort of hyper-obedience to the Church, and the distinguishing factor is whether that action is one Protestants think good or not. (3) [which is really (2) warmed over] (a) Protestants claim that Catholics fear to do anything without making sure that the Magisterium approves.

(3b) Therefore, the Church is to blame for mariolatry.

(3c)But Protestants (and other anti-Catholics) trumpet, using data from an organization known to be liberal, the alleged massive defiance of the Magisterium by Catholics who use ABC or are pro-choice or what have you. (3d)The Magisterium is thus shown to be far too powerful, except for when it's impotent.

1,230 posted on 06/02/2008 7:35:51 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Your imagination runs wild.


1,433 posted on 06/03/2008 7:58:45 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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