Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
“How about an example of such a sect?”
“Just make a decision for Christ, right where you are. You don’t need to change, He’ll do it for you. All you have to do is make a decision”
Oooh, I know the type....the sower’s rocky ground.
“Oooh, I know the type....the sower’s rocky ground.”
Unfortunately, the “rocky ground” principle runs through all Christendom.
The sects you describe not only seek out the rocky ground, but they also see no need to encourage roots.
I don’t think it is any particular sect so much as some practitioners and “moths” who are attracted to them yet are relying on something other than a personal commitment to Christ and all that entails. We are a spoiled, impulsive, impatient people who want our religious life quick and easy, convenient and as painless as possible. So we rely on an “easy” decision without heart change, a ritual, a family heritage or attendance at church or Mass for our spiritual fix and for the moment we are serene and fail to see the warning as we walk out the door “Many will say Lord, Lord...”.
Mary was full of grace prior to the conception of Jesus.
Gabriel addressed her so.
Mary walked with Jesus most of the days of his life.
She was there at his first Miracle at Cana.
She was with him in some of his public life.
Some of the Apostles denied him (Peter) , some begged him or positions of authority.
Mary meditated in her heart.
Only one apostle stood with her at the foot of the cross while her heart was pierced with sorrow and suffering.
Mary was in the upper room at Pentecost...and was filled in a new way with the Holy Spirit...
But she is just a woman worthy of nothing.
Shame the way she is disrespected.
A-G, for you and others who may be interested, here’s a study in the current edition of the Bible Codes Digest about the NAMES OF GOD. It’s basically just a Hebrew study that they do every digest. This time, it’s on the Names of God.
http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/590
An interesting code on the true Messiah is here:
http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/593
[ Is that what you think Christ's words mean? That we can believe anything and it's okay? Read the rest of the chapter... "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.]
Amazing how people read what they want to read and ignore the rest.
I didn't say God saw denominations, God see individuals who are dead in their sins and need a Saviour, who is the Lord Jesus Christ
You receive the grace of God by faith and nothing else (Rom.4, Gal.3)
Anyone that teaches otherwise is teaching a false Gospel and is accursed (Gal.1)
Actually it IS a perfect translation, and I wasn't claiming you viewed it as I do.
The Roman Catholic, like everyone else is going to have to reject what he has been taught and believe what the Bible says, no different then any other unbeliever does.
God is indeed long suffering, not wanting any to perish, but the route to salvation is narrow, not broad.
Many Roman Catholics are hearing the true Gospel on these threads and are going to have to deal with the truth of what they have read.
That is how God's grace operates, by getting the truth to those who need to hear it and those who reject it will be judged by those words they rejected.
And let’s not overlook the Bible Codes referring to “Mary, the Mother of God”
http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/259
Let us at least admit that the Roman Catholic Church and 'Protestants'(Christians), teach two different Gospels
If they are different, then only one of us are truely saved and the other is preaching a false Gospel which is damning people to hell (2Cor.11:4)
That is how God's grace operates, by getting the truth to those who need to hear it and those who reject it will be judged by those words they rejected.
So, for example, if "the Roman Catholic" rejects what the sola scriptura crowd says, according to the grace of God, the sola scriptura crowd gets to judge the RC?
I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying. That GOD is going to have the sola scriptura crowd judge the RCs that do not reject their own church?
More from biblecodedigest.com regarding Mary:
1. Mother of God Ah-mahl (5)
He will count those who rose in Him, and those to whom the Mother of God brings pleasure in Him.
2. Mother of God Ah-mahl (8)
With the exalted right hand of the Mother of God, rest and sleep.
3. Mother of God Ah-mahl (7)
Providing from above, move, God, the king’s day. Come, Mother of God, and let there be silence by command.
4. Mother of God Ah-mahl (6)
You will long for the Mother of God as a sea of knowledge, with his sea of hiding being an intoxicating passion, redeeming the stone on my mouth.
[This poetic ELS brings to mind the passage in Isaiah 6:1-7. Isaiah has seen The Lord and cries out “Woe is me!” Then one of the seraphs touches his mouth with a live coal to cleanse his unclean lips and atone for his sin.]
5. Mother of God Ah-mahl (2)
I signaled with God’s power, so that you wonder about both the sea and the island, for a congregation was wiped out. Become gradually aware of the Mother of God.
And I would respectfully state that your comment has nothing to do with the reality of what I said.
If one rejects the Gospel as given in the scriptures, he will end up at the Great White Throne Judgement and then be damned to the Lake of Fire for eternity, and that is what scripture teaches (Jn.3:36, Rev.20:15)
Are you saved?
If you died at this moment do you know that you would be in heaven?
If you can't say yes to those two simple questions, you are likely not saved and are depending on something other then the Blood of Christ for your salvation.
Some people are just downright deranged, but I’m pretty sure God will forgive them as they are not sane.
Much merit in what you’ve said.
Thx.
“If you can’t say yes to those two simple questions, you are likely not saved and are depending on something other then the Blood of Christ for your salvation.”
Bold words for the man depending on the infallibility of the KJV translators.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.