The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.

A question I would pose to RC generally: Why is Mary is exceptionally venerated when compared to every other agent of God's plan? For instance, shouldn't Jeremiah be exceptionally venerated? It was he that Jehovah declared He knew when he was being knitted in the womb (a very special designation not given to any other)... There is easily as much or more cause for his honor as there is for Mary's.

There's the old joke about how hard it must have been to be Joseph: However hard he tries, he's never going to be more than #3.

It was he that Jehovah declared He knew when he was being knitted in the womb (a very special designation not given to any other)...

Wow, does THIS ever illustrate the different approaches to Scripture. We think JHVH knows everyone when they are being knitted in the womb. We use that quote as part of our pro-life propaganda.(Not saying this to be contentious, but just to register my surprise and consciousness of a need for further study and dialogue.)

I think, though, it comes down (and this is NOT intended as some kind of argument) to our thinking about the intimate union between Jesus and Mary. Though I can't come up with any right now, some of our writers think that John was blessed just by laying his head on our Lord's bosom. How much more our Lady when He lay His head on hers!

It's not just the "fiat", which viewed in the most minimalistic fashion was the utterance of seconds, but the whole pregnancy, with the mingling of tissue which has been recently determined to take place between mother and intrauterine child. It is the gazing into that face which we long to see. It is all of motherhood.

For us, I'd say, longing to hear the word from the Word is a gift from God, which wars, at least for a while, against our nature. But I'm a daddy, and my child was so sick it looked like she'd never learn to speak. I can tell you I have longed for few things as much as for hearing her say ANYTHING. And the day she said, "I love you, papa," well, when I forget that you can pull the plug. Nobody's home.

Then, let's drop the "immaculata" consideration for a second, to have the natural longing of any mother to hear her child laugh and speak, to see his first smile, to — please think about this — have him run to her and leap into her arms, and to enfold him in her arms -- to have that, and then to go back and recast that sentence with the masculine pronoun capitalized because its antecedent is God the Son of God ...

We venerate her not because of her deeds but because of the great gift God gave her. And again, even if somebody discovered a typo in Ineffe\abilis Deus and they MEANT to say NOT immaculately conceived, (Darn printer got into the communion wine again!), we'd still say the gifts given to her are the greatest ever given to any human, save one.

And then restore, for the sake of discussion only, the immaculate conception, and then Mary is, as I like to say, the first fruits of the second fruits. That is she is what all the elect will be, utterly free of sin, bodily present before the Lord, crowned with a regal crown, gazing raptly and deeply on the face which all of us long to see.

Owing to what we consider to be the HUGE gift of being the mother and, uh, primary care-giver of God the Son of God, we see her as not only "blessed among women" (which is a semitic superlative) but the most blessed of any of us.

Again, not because of what she did, but because of the great things the Lord did for her.

As I say I don't think this forum is much good for persuading, so that is not my intent. I do want to present a comprehensible picture which will enable, for the purpose of understanding only, a "willing suspension of disbelief" just long enough to get the flavor of our thought and piety.

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