The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[betty boop]

Thank you so much for your kind words of support, dearest sister in Christ! And thank you so much for posting the 23rd Psalm. Usually one only hears this Psalm at funerals. But to me, Psalm 23 is definitely a psalm for the living. I pray it virtually every day....

I haven't posted an article in an age. I'm working on one now regarding the observer problem that touches on the complementarity principle, among other things. Maybe if I ever get it finished up I'll post it in the Philosophy archive. :^)

Thanks so much for the suggestion!

[betty boop]

Thank you sincerely for your comment, tiki.

[Marysecretary]

Thanks for the explanation, sandyeggo. I think sometimes we get confused about the abuse button or buzzing the religion mod. I know I did. Love, M

[OLD REGGIE]

I believe this and the question of "Mary giving consent" goes to the foreknowledge of God.

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Becky

Yes. And God wasn't nervously chewing his fingernails wondering whether He would be granted permission by Mary when He sent his angel with the message "You will conceive...".

Mary was a confused, frightened young virgin but the explanation by the angel soothed her fears and confusion. She recognized how blessed she was to be chosen by God. She put her full faith in Him and willingly assumed her role.

Luke 1:
[38] And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

[Marysecretary]

I’m glad to learn you are a reader of the Bible. Hubby reads it through every year himself.

How does anyone know if anything is trustworthy anymore? I believe that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the Bible. I trust HIM.

If you don’t want to let us know what church or denomination you attend, that’s fine with me. I didn’t realize it would be a bone of contention. Anyway, welcome aboard.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Here is interesting source on Primary Source Documents pertaining to early American history. The Protestant influence is unmistakable.

Among them, The New England Primer is most telling. Not only for the founders but for most of our history as a country, it was the primary schoolbook and it included the Westminster Catechism. Students were required to memorize it. First published around 1690, the New England Primer has been republished as recently as 1996 for homeschoolers.

Amazing! When our children were small we read to them from the Westminster Shorter Catechism which was intended for children as well as adults. I can't imagine any Christian denomination not finding comfort in its words...

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man's chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy him forever.[2]

Here is the text of the 1843 edition. In particular, note the section on the "Burning of Mr. John Rogers" which says in part:

MR. JOHN ROGERS, minister of the gospel in London, was the first martyr in Queen Mary's reign; and was burnt at Smithfield, February the fourteenth, 1554. His wife, with nine small children, and one at her breast, followed him to the stake, with which sorrowful sight he was not in the least daunted, but with wonderful patience died courageously for the gospel of JESUS CHRIST.

My husband and I were just watching a TV show about the early Christian martyrs under Nero. It is astounding to realize these men and women faced such terrible deaths with total confidence in their salvation by Christ. How could Christianity not be true if so many died so willingly for the glory of Christ risen? How could such a meager minority grow to take over the entire world with the Good News of Christ risen if it were not God's will?

[OLD REGGIE]

It’s an inaccurate statement, since none of us KNOWS who’s pushing the abuse button. But when it’s said repeatedly, it creates, and then perpetuates, a stereotype which, conveniently, cannot be proven - OR - inconveniently, disproven.

Similar, I suppose, to Mad Dawg's oft repeated charge of "out to drive us nutty".

[mgist]

It is astounding to realize these men and women faced such terrible deaths with total confidence in their salvation by Christ.

Yes, there are amazing examples of people who live in Christ. That is exactly why we call them Saints and honor them.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Is this person you speak of a head of (100 acre) a secular state or the head of a Church?...Do you choose to serve the "Head of State"?

What an excellent question, OR.

And not only to serve, but to bow down to and kneel before and venerate this "head of state."

And to believe this "head of state" speaks "infallibly" concerning certain matters.

I don't think even Reagan got that pass from Republicans.

All men are fallen, even Mary and every pope and "head of state."

[Petronski]

She put her full faith in Him and willingly assumed her role.

Willingly?

So she DID consent.

[Petronski]

And not only to serve, but to bow down to and kneel before and venerate this "head of state."

That would be quite a problem. Good thing Catholics don't bow down to the Pope and kneel to him and venerate him.

[mgist]

I assume you missed Northern Ireland. Two way hatred by the way. And the many places in Central America where Protestant converts are still persecuted.You are absolutely right. I have never been to Ireland. I haven't heard of Protestant converts being persecuted in C.A.

I guess it really goes against my sensibilities to have another individual, who has no personal ties to me, think it appropriate to tell me whether I am saved, damned, worship correctly etc. I don't know if it is just me, but I find it extremely offensive and completely against what our loving God represents. The accusations directed at Catholics, from some Protestants, are as ridiculous as someone from England saying we eat bad food, and we are all fat. They truly believe that they are somehow superior, but they are only a poor reflection on their country.

As an adult, I would never openly criticize anything remotely associated with God. It would be a poor reflection on me, and even worse, my Christianity.

[enat]

“It’s fairly standard procedure in these religious discussions for a person to offer what his religion is so that we can all better understand the debate and where each of us is coming from.”

Don’t you think you would get a better understanding if you just asked “What do you believe is your basis for ultimate truth and how do you know it is trustworthy?” rather than what “church” I belong to? If I said I belong to St. Paul’s, St. Andrews, the PCUSA, TEC, UMC or the UCC what would that say except that I belong to an institution?

“For all we know, you could be a Muslim or a scientologist or an atheist.”

Please, why would I have asked the questions on this particular thread or even care whether the parties here were communicating past each other or had not thought through or been personally convinced of their foundational principle if I was not a member of the Christian family?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Yes, there are amazing examples of people who live in Christ. That is exactly why we call them Saints and honor them.

"Them?"

Sadly, this is just another example of where the church of Rome obscures the words of the Bible and deprives His saints, all believers, of their rightful confidence in Christ risen.

Saints are all those who have been redeemed by Christ; all those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit; all believers. You and me, mgist.

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." -- Romans 1:7

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"And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda." -- Acts 9:32

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"But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem." -- Romans 15:25-26

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"O fear the LORD, ye His saints: for there is no want to them that fear him." -- Psalm 34:9

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"For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not His saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off." -- Psalm 37:28

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"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints:

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" -- Colossians 1:25-27

Has the "mystery which hath been hid from the ages and from generations" "now been made manifest" to you, mgist?

Have you received an understanding of this mystery of "Christ in you," which has now made known to His saints?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

As I said, you are not the first to ask "why" they should offer their own faith in these discussions.

But every time it's been asked of someone, all have honestly given their church affiliation.

If you still refuse to tell us what church you belong to, when every member of these discussions has done exactly that, then please don't ping me to anything you have to say. It's difficult not to believe you have some hidden agenda, and if that's the case, your opinions would be a waste of time.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

In that case, what do you call someone who, knowing that a woman is betrothed to a man, approaches her and asks for her permission to "inseminate" her ?

lol. I never thought of that. Very good question.

[Mad Dawg]

But I have evidence, in the form of testimony.

[Iscool]

Sadly, this is just another example of where the church of Rome obscures the words of the Bible and deprives His saints, all believers, of their rightful confidence in Christ risen.

Exactly...Their church has made slaves out of them...Their church has deprived them of the knowledge of God (albeit willingly)...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I was speaking of MarySecretary reading the Bible and believing the words of Jesus Christ.

Although the other Mary probably knew the Scriptures, too.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would add also, that Mary understood the OT scriptures about the coming Savior, which enabled her to cooperate:) Just adding this to show the need to study always, cooperate with the grace of God in what He reveals to us so that we can be ready to cooperate also. Without study of scripture we can miss what God wants each of us to do thru His Son.

Becky