Protestants and Sola Scriptura

Catholic Net ^ | George Sim Johnston

[SoothingDave]

Prove from the New Testament that the power to intercede for sinners was granted to Mary rather than Christ alone. Prove also anywhere within the OLD or NEW testaments where God ever said the Mother of the Messiah would be without sin.

Do you ever pray for others? That is intercession. There is no reason to believe the Mother of Jesus has less ability to intercede than you do.

And Luke clearly says Mary is full of grace. You don't buy the implications of what this means, but that is due to you following a biased interpreter of the original Greek.

(I do, too but I admit my bias.)

IF you can't do that, do not say I need Christ, because I am not following extra-biblical teaching - you are. Pretty bold of you to follow a blasphemous doctrine about Mary and then claim "I" am the one who needs Christ

I didn't say you needed Christ. I think you mis-read me. I meant someone at some point helped you find Christ. Not that you needed someone now to help you. My point was not personal, but rather that everyone has someone who helps them to find salvation.

That is participation in the work of the Savior.

[conservativegramma]

We all need Christ.

That statement I agree with. It was the insinuation that I am 'lost' because I don't accept Catholic dogma I took exception to.

[CautiouslyHopeful]

I’m not talking about educated vs. uneducated (though there is nothing wrong with being educated—Christ didn’t reject the Pharisees because of their education, but because of their hypocrisy and lack of virtue). I’m talking about making conscious voluntary intellectual decisions with the mind over vague and involuntary emotional experiences, like sorcerers use. It is a mark of true faith to continue to choose to follow the commandments of Christ even when your soul feels dry.

[conservativegramma]

Do you ever pray for others? That is intercession.

Yes, just as I'm doing for you right now. That is not to say that by praying I am helping save souls as your catechism does say regarding mary, nor am I calling myself, "Queen of all things", not am I placing a humongous statue of myself in the center of the altar of a Catholic Church in Evansville, IN larger and more prominent than Christ Himself! (And yes I've seen that).

[suzyjaruki]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Federal Headship.

[Quix]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .

So . . . observations . . . true observations about any class of people . . . identifiable group . . .

automatically becomes bigotry

IF

said group feels the least bit uncomfortable with the true observations?

LOL.

I didn’t know we had such a liberal faction represented on FR.

[Petronski]

IF said group feels the least bit uncomfortable with the true observations?

No. But they are bigotry if they extend attributes of some members of a group to members of the group generally.

[Quix]

Hmmmmmm. Interesting.

[SoothingDave]

Yes, just as I'm doing for you right now. That is not to say that by praying I am helping save souls

But you are! Or at least you are trying to help in the salvation of others. Don't think this takes away from Jesus. It's what Jesus wanted us to do when He sent the disciples out with the Great Commission.

nor am I calling myself, "Queen of all things", not am I placing a humongous statue of myself in the center of the altar of a Catholic Church in Evansville, IN larger and more prominent than Christ Himself! (And yes I've seen that).

It would help if you didn't go off on these tangents. Take one thing at a time.

[Quix]

There is no way to spin your way out of that although you’re trying really hard.

= = =

Maybe one of the little publicized dogmas is that all RC’s must have chiropracters on retainer to help handle all their theological, intellectual, linguistic, Biblical, hysterical-historical . . . rubberized contortions.

[Running On Empty]

“Investigate it for yourself”.

I did. That’s why I’m Catholic.

I think we have been through this before.

I Corinthians 12:18

[Quix]

That is a fascinating de’ja vu experience, isn’t it.

[blue-duncan]

“That’s your problem, your trying to “read into” it when there isn’t anything in the verse that demands the Jews and Grecians be treated “collectively.”

(Acts 11:19-21) “Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

20. And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.

21. And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.”

Notice the verse 21 says that the Lord was with “them”, not “some of them” as in verse 20. “Them” refers to the “they” of verse 19 and includes the “some of them” in verse 20.

As far as Peter is concerned, there is nothing in the text that would lead anyone to believe he had anything to do with the Antioch church.

[Quix]

It is fascinating to watch RC’s weasel out of dogma promulgated in in-house publications by the RC magicsterical’s own hierarchy.

Very fascinating.

Kind of like . . .

The chief political power-monger and magicsterical are infallible except when they aren’t.

[Quix]

Ah yes, the keys given to ALL BELIEVERS.

. . . to do as outlined at the end of Mark 16.

Fascinating.

[roamer_1]

You never had to raise children and teach thme about rigt and wrong and teach them to unerstand the ramifications of their choices? They are not born with it.

Raised four of my own, two sons and two daughters. Teaching them right was always the problem... They always seemed to find the wrong on their own. :D

The case of the infant or insane or retared person who does not sin because he lacks the capacity to do so makes the Bible's "All have sinned" a less-than-absolute statement. It allows exceptions.

But man is not the arbiter thereof. That is Jehovah's to decide, and barring any exceptions pronounced by Him, I will go with what He has determined... Namely that ALL have sinned...

Mary can be an exception. Mary can be without sin and not violate this Biblical passage because it is meant to apply to most every, but not all occassions and people.

But there is no need for the exception, there is no record of the exception, and there is proof against that exception, in Mary's own words.

[Petronski]

Your scriptural errors are always fascinating.

[roamer_1]

If exceptions are allowed, then Mary can be an exception.

and if a frog had wings, it's butt wouldn't bump the ground.

[SoothingDave]

there is proof against that exception, in Mary's own words.

Which words?

[Quix]

So true.

Which is another bit of evidence why He’d have nothing to do with setting up a bunch of bureaucratic political intellectual elitists to head yet another RELIGIOUS BUREAUCRACY to lord it over the serfs.

Sheesh.