LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM

The Coming Home Network ^ | Brian W. Harrison

[annalex]

All things necessary to become a Christian, live as a Christian, and grow as a Christian are clearly presented in the Bible

Where is that written?

[blue-duncan]

“Where is that written?

Matthew 4:4, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”

“the sacred writings ... are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:15).

John 17:17, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Yes, I understood his argument.

Thank you for the information on the Canon of Scripture upon which Catholics and Protestants alike agree...specifically the books of the New Testament in which the Gospel of Jesus Christ is most clearly enunciated by the Holy Spirit inspired Words written by human instruments.

Do Catholics agree these New Teatament books in the agreed upon Canon of NT books are infallible, without error?

[annalex]

We agree that the scripture (at least the books we all consider canonical) is necessary for salvation, is truth and can ve a vehicle of sanctifying grace, and is “profitable” for the clergy to round off their education.

Where is it written that “all things necessary to become a Christian, live as a Christian, and grow as a Christian are clearly presented in the Bible”? Where, for example, is it written that the Bible contains one book but not another? Re-read the article, please - you can do better than that.

[annalex]

Do Catholics agree these New Teatament books in the agreed upon Canon of NT books are infallible, without error?

Yes. Of course.

[Alex Murphy]

In isolation from the Old Testament the "sola scriptura" superstition looks even worse, since Jesus, unlike Moses, did not write or instruct the Apostles to write the New Testament

Wow. In one fell swoop, the entire New Testament - and especially The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ - is removed from the Catholic Canon, no matter which member of the Trinity was involved in it's writing...

...and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work...
1 Timothy 3:15-17

"Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea..."
- Revelation 1:11

[blue-duncan]

“Where, for example, is it written that the Bible contains one book but not another? Re-read the article, please - you can do better than that.”

I read the article and many others just like it. The early church that had the original documents “heard” the Holy Spirit in the writings and were convinced as to their authenticity. Through reading, they believed that the Scriptures they had were the very words of God himself and they were able to distinguish the authentic from the spurious. It is as Jesus said in John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me”. The fixing of the “canon” some two to three hundred years later did not authenticate the books of the bible, but merely cataloged them.

[annalex]

In one fell swoop ...

The problem you have is explained by the author of the article very well. The Holy Scripture does not contain a commandment of Christ to write the gospels, for example.

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

If Catholics and Protestants agree that the books of the New Testament are canonical and that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and as such are infallible......then we must be able to agree on much.

Such as the fact that Jesus Christ himself endorsed much of the canonical books of the Old Testament by quoting from them (therefore giving them authenticity).

He quoted from Job, from Jonah, from Psalms, from Daniel, from the Torah, and from many other books of the old Testament canon as viewed by Protestants.

As did the writers of the Gospels and the book of Acts and the letters and the Revelation....hundreds of references in the INFALLIBLE New Testament to the canonical books of the Old Testament. There was no need to say: The book of Isaiah is a legitimate canonical book of the Old Testament. By quoting that book, the Holy Spirit (author of the New Testament books upon which we agree are canonical and infallible)....gave those books their AUTHENTICATION ENDORSEMENT BY GOD HIMSELF.

To write all of the passages of the New Testament Scriptures which quote from the Old Testament canonical books would take way too much space since there are HUNDREDS of such references.

How can anyone say the Canon of Old Testament Scripture as endorsed by the Protestant Church has no logical support for its Canon?

That is, simply, an utterly untrue statement.

[annalex]

The early church that had the original documents “heard” the Holy Spirit in the writings

Ah, thanks. This is a Catholic statement, unlike that Calvin's self-authentication nonsense. This, of course, also validates the Deuterocanon.

[annalex]

We are not saying that the books in Luther’s OT canon are not inspired, just that the canon was truncated by him

[annalex]

We are not saying that the books in Luther’s OT canon are not inspired, just that the canon was truncated by him

[Quix]

a direct product of the Church.

Affirmed by the Church Universal at large in the world 300-400 years after the writing of it . . .

But T'was NOT a product of

the political power-mongering RELIGIONISTS in Rome lording it over all the other Christian serfs.

Thankfully.

Though the rubber histories, rubber logic of the RC edifice's magicsterical persistently begs to differ!

Clearly, we have another pontifical effort to shove the revisionist rubber history, rubber Bibles and rubber logic of the RC political power mongers down the collective throat of the rest of the world.

Of course, that includes the standard issuance of special dispensations; special indulgences and special issuances of sackcloth and ashes for the charisteristic wailing and whining and abuse button sitting exercises so !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! for RC edifice reps. I wonder how many encouragements for Prottys to go commit suicide there will be in this thread.

Is it just me or is it tooooo early for another edition of this nonsense?

[Quix]

Methinks some folks have an obsession or an addiction or both . . . .

to nose twisting and ear twisting . . .

so that when the vicim cries !OUCH!

they can wail in abject self-pity about how unfairly they have been treated and how horribly their favorite idols have been maligned.

Shouldn’t such threads come with free barf bags?

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Ok more later on this. The writer didn’t mention Luther - he discussed John Calvin.

Will have to rejoin the discussion later.

Found this good explanation of the History of the Canon of scripture.

Luther isn’t mentioned in that either.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=697

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Just some final scripture passages which we agree are the Infallible Word of God:

16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]

Our RIGHTEOUSNESS *which fits us for heaven....if from Jesus Christ - and is ours BY FAITH! JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN, THE RIGHTEOUS WILL LIVE BY FAITH.

More tomorrow..good night

[Dr. Eckleburg]

INSTITUTES OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION
CHAPTER 7
THE TESTIMONY OF THE SPIRIT…

"Nothings therefore can be more absurd than the fiction, that the power of judging Scripture is in the Church, and that on her nod its certainty depends. When the Church receives it, and gives it the stamp of her authority, she does not make that authentic which was otherwise doubtful or controverted but, acknowledging it as the truth of God, she, as in duty bounds shows her reverence by an unhesitating assent. As to the question, How shall we be persuaded that it came from God without recurring to a decree of the Church? it is just the same as if it were asked, How shall we learn to distinguish light from darkness, white from black, sweet from bitter? Scripture bears upon the face of it as clear evidence of its truth, as white and black do of their colour, sweet and bitter of their taste...

IOW, spirit recognizes spirit.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I meant to add...

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." -- 1 Corinthians 2:10-12

---

"As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever." -- Isaiah 59:21

[papertyger]

As soon as any "intelligent opposition" shows up, let us know.

What? No verse of Scripture to sanctify petty vindictiveness?

Oh, that's right. Tourettes doesn't manifest itself until the sufferer becomes frustrated.

[ovrtaxt]

How can you understand Hebrew mysticism with Greek logic?