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To: Forest Keeper
I wrote: AH, so does God actively ensure that man is sinning so that His Plan is fulfilled? Or does God know what will happen?

You responded: Both. One evidence is that the timing of events as they happen just cannot be by coincidence.

It certainly sounds like you are saying God is the author of sin, since man cannot do anything without upseting "God's Sovereignty". Regarding the "timing", you are putting God within time again.

God put the tree in the Garden and then He let the serpent in. He also did not give Adam and Eve the wisdom to know how to combat the serpent. What do you suppose God was thinking when He did this?

What makes you say that man didn't have the wisdom to combat the serpent? They understood God's command to them - Eve wasn't confused. The problem was they fell to temptation.

when we are judged for reward it will be based on our deeds. In addition, only the lost are trapped in sin. The elect have been set free and are free to do good. God, of course, ordains what that good is going to be.

And what about all the times where judgment is seen as a decision between heaven and hell? Again, you are ignoring the Scripture's own words on this subject. Clearly, we have covered this and for whatever reason, you refuse to see the existence of these verses. They won't go away, FK. ALL judgment is not spoken of as a "rewards" vs. "lesser rewards". As a matter of fact, there are more verses that speak otherwise, that the decision is one of hell or heaven.

I didn't know it was possible to overstate God's sovereignty.

It is if it ignores what God Himself has ordained. Clearly, God does not find it necessary to crush man, to annihilate him, just so God does not have any "competition". Again, you are looking at only part of the Scriptures and forming your theological beliefs.

Regards

9,015 posted on 10/14/2007 9:09:59 AM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus; MarkBsnr; irishtenor; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; blue-duncan; kosta50
It certainly sounds like you are saying God is the author of sin, since man cannot do anything without upsetting "God's Sovereignty". Regarding the "timing", you are putting God within time again.

Nope. God does not inject sin into people causing them to sin. He leaves them alone, knowing how they will sin. That does not make God the author of it. On the timing, what I'm saying is that it is unreasonable to say that man is running the show down here, and God just picks His openings for what He wants to happen based on the random chance of human acts. Instead of that I say God determined everything that is going to happen while outside of time. God is in control, not man.

What makes you say that man didn't have the wisdom to combat the serpent? They understood God's command to them - Eve wasn't confused. The problem was they fell to temptation.

They fell into temptation, but didn't have the wisdom to handle it, or even know what temptation was. What did they have of the knowledge of good and evil? Nothing, as yet. One needs wisdom to negotiate such issues, and God didn't give it to them, thus ensuring the result. They had no chance against the serpent. The fix was in.

And what about all the times where judgment is seen as a decision between heaven and hell?

What about them? I recognize there are those verses. We will go through a formal judgment for salvation. Believers will be found not guilty because the penalty has already been paid by Christ.

9,031 posted on 10/14/2007 2:39:35 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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