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To: jo kus; irishtenor
Why did God HAVE to save man by dying? What "forced" God to this extreme?

Perfectly good question. I have no idea. :) I infer backwards that since He did it that way, and since our God is not a God of wasted effort, that it must have been necessary to accomplish His plan.

Again, it sounds like you believe that the Bible was a rule book that God had to follow.

As God is timeless, in a sense I would imagine that the Bible is sort of a history book (or diary) to God. He planned it, He wrote it, He accomplished everything in it. I don't have any notion that He needs to "follow it".

I know it is not you, but lately, I have been engaging other Protestants who appear to take the view that the Bible is MORE than a book. Someone quoted me John 1:1-2 to show that the Bible = God.

I appreciate that, and I would certainly never have any part of Bible = God. :)

Another person thought it was strange that I would say that the Bible is an "external thing".

Probably me. :) Maybe it's semantics, but if the Bible is God's own word then how can it be external? If I quote from an old speech of mine, then I would not say that I am using an external source.

Now, I get the feeling that you are presenting the Bible as a "force" that makes God give up His Son to satisfy ... I don't know, the power of the Bible, I guess...

Nah, the Bible is a recording of God's word. God's word itself has the power. The power always resides with and emanates from God exclusively. The organization of words on a page have no force in and of themselves.

I hope you can correct me, I am having misgivings about the directions this conversation is going. Please re-assure me that you do not worship the Bible or think it is God or possesses some power over God.

No problem. :) I assure you that I do not worship an inanimate object and I do not think IT is God. As such, IT cannot possess any power over God. :)

8,705 posted on 10/10/2007 7:49:13 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
I infer backwards that since He did it that way, and since our God is not a God of wasted effort, that it must have been necessary to accomplish His plan.

It is my belief that nothing that God does is "necessary" for HIM. It may very well be for us, but God certainly could have "accepted" a number of means of expiation for mankind's sins. I think dying on a cross is the ultimate expression of God's humble love for us. But being "necessary"? I think that makes God subject to some force that God must "necessarily" make something happen in a certain way.

As God is timeless, in a sense I would imagine that the Bible is sort of a history book (or diary) to God. He planned it, He wrote it, He accomplished everything in it. I don't have any notion that He needs to "follow it".

OK. Just checking.

Maybe it's semantics, but if the Bible is God's own word then how can it be external?

The "external" was in reference to the human...But even if this refers to the relationship between God and the Bible, the Bible is God's Words written down in a book. Do they have any more power than anything else that God created with His Word? ALL of creation is from God, so I would presume that ALL of creation, to include the Bible, relates God's Word and manifests it in a particular way.

I assure you that I do not worship an inanimate object and I do not think IT is God. As such, IT cannot possess any power over God. :)

Whew! That's a relief... I was getting worried lately that I had stumbled onto some secret Protestant tenant of their faith and was getting worried about this "bible worship" thing. As I said in the preceding paragraph, the bible is a creation of God just as any other creation. Worshiping it is idolatry.

Regards

8,712 posted on 10/11/2007 5:12:26 AM PDT by jo kus
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