[Alamo-Girl]

Wow, this is simply a classic example of how two different sets of people can look at the same chunks o' Scripture and see opposing theories proved -- and that is why I try to avoid "proving" stuff From Scripture.

How strange you should say that.

What I have found on authentic Catholic websites and sources, such as NewAdvent.org confirms my assessments of the situation.

Remember, I am not anti-Catholic, I am pro-God.

The only time I raise an issue with my brothers and sisters of the Catholic faith is when I see something presented which might be misunderstood and result in someone appreciating God's glory less than he should.

That was the reason behind the research project and subsequent sidebar on "who is The Rock?"

Issues like that are rarely misunderstood at the highest levels of the Catholic church - but can be misunderstood by the laity or by the observers of the Catholic faith. For instance, betty boop posted this direct quote from Pope Benedict XVI in reference to the name of God, The Rock. (That Name was announced in the Song of Moses, Deut 32:1-4)

The faith should keep us in a constant attitude of humility before God, indeed of adoration and praise. In fact what we are because we are Chistians, we owe solely to Him and to his grace. Our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that "we exist in Him" should give us an attitude of total confidence and immense joy. Our Christian life therefore stands on the most stable and safe rock imaginable. And from this rock we draw all our strength.

The same is true on this thread. For instance, the translation of Luke 1:41 at NewAdvent.org does not add the word "Most" to the word "blessed" when speaking of Mary v Jesus - whereas the NAB translation linked at 2149 does:

cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. (NAB)

And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Et exclamavit voce magna et dixit benedicta tu inter mulieres et benedictus fructus ventris tui (NewAdvent)

And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed (eulogeo) art thou among women, and blessed (eulogeo) is the fruit of thy womb. (KJV with Greek)

And there is no confusion between "holy water" and "living water" anywhere that I researched except for the one extra-Biblical comment from the Didache quoted at 2169 which gives the priority for choosing water with which to baptize, in this order of availability: living, cold, warm or aspersion three times.

I could find no confusion between living water and holy water on the Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.

And finally, on the difference between baptism by another mortal in water - either to Moses, to repentance (John's baptism), to Jesus – or collectively, to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as compared to baptism by the Holy Spirit - there has been no dispute in either of the two linked articles.

The living water is the Holy Spirit. Holy water is water which has been blessed. And whereas mortals may baptize us to Him, Jesus Christ Himself is the one who baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

My point is simply, to God be the glory!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Fascinating findings, AG. Thanks for all that excellent research.

For instance, the translation of Luke 1:41 at NewAdvent.org does not add the word "Most" to the word "blessed" when speaking of Mary v Jesus - whereas the NAB translation linked at 2149 does

I wonder which will conform first -- the NAB or NewAdvent? I'd wager the latter. It would be interesting to remember this and check the website in a few years.

[1000 silverlings]

Using Scripture to interpret "stuff", for example, seems pretty clear what "living water' is

John4: 6 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God and who is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

11 (The woman) said to him, "Sir, 7 you do not even have a bucket and the cistern is deep; where then can you get this living water?

12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?"

13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again;

14 but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

[Mad Dawg]

Hoo YAH! I think what I said was maybe misunderstood? ALL I meant was that I've seen some of those quotes that you used to distinguish between Baptism with water and Baptism with the Holy Spirit used to establish their identity, not their difference. To be precise, my having seen that, led to my remark.

I wasn't coming down on any side, and certainly not against what you were saying. I was just verbally shaking my head over the difficulty of the task.

I think, at least I hope, I have already expressed my admiration for the work done on "Rock".

Where does it fit in the conversation that "living water", denotes water in a stream or a river or a fresh pond, just as "living rock" denotes rock in its natural situation?

[Mad Dawg]

My point is simply, to God be the glory!

Oh.

Well.

If you're going to be THAT way ...



Who dares to disagree? I would happily put down all contention and dance that dance for a while....

[kosta50]

The same is true on this thread. For instance, the translation of Luke 1:41 at NewAdvent.org does not add the word "Most" to the word "blessed" when speaking of Mary v Jesus - whereas the NAB translation linked at 2149 does:

Which is yet another example of how what some people call the "word of God" has been humanized for theological and other ends.

This practice of literally putting words in God's mouth has been going on since the Pentecost.