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To: nanetteclaret
I could use the same argument on you and challenge you to prove the Scriptures are valid.

Why would you want to??? The bible has no more value to you than the writings of corrupt men???

The bible has proved itself at the very least by the phrophesies contained within the bible and that have come to pass...

The bible claims to be the words of God...

The Apocrypha is not part of the bible since it is not included in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms...

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And if by some freak chance that God somehow used your church to preserve any scripture, it was God's doing and NOT your church...But I don't believe that for a minute anyway...

To put the writing of your church fathers (perceived or real) on equal footing with the word of God is ludicrous...

2,056 posted on 03/21/2007 5:04:39 AM PDT by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
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To: Iscool

Evidently you don't understand how we got our Bible that we use today. Let me explain these historical facts to you:

There were many, many books and letters being circulated in the first 400 years of the Early Church. If you had been a Christian during that time, you would not have had a clue about which books (other than the Old Testament) to regard as the Word of God. The teachings of the Church would be what would have directed your beliefs. It was only in the late 300's, at the Council of Hippo in 393 AD, the First Council of Carthage in 397 AD, and the Second Council of Carthage in 419 AD, that the Church definitively chose which books would be included in the Canon and which would not. How was it decided? The Councils of the Church relied on the Holy Spirit to direct them in choosing which should be in and which should be out. There were many writings by good and holy men, such as the Epistles of Clement (4th pope and a good friend of St. Paul: “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” Philippians 4:3). According to Eusebius in 325 AD, Clement‘s First Epistle was considered to be divinely inspired while St. John’s Revelation was not! It was not until the Councils of the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that each of the books to be included in the Canon were chosen. So yes, until the fourth century, the books which are now part of Holy Scripture and the writings of the Church Fathers which have just been quoted WERE ON THE SAME FOOTING!


2,066 posted on 03/21/2007 7:05:19 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (?Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there's always laughter and good red wine." Hilaire Belloc)
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To: Iscool; nanetteclaret

**To put the writing of your church fathers (perceived or real) on equal footing with the word of God is ludicrous...**

I don't think anyone would put the early church fathers -- and they are real, BTW, as equal to scripture. Sometimes they surpass Scripture, because some Scripture was wrong. (You do have a globe, don't you?) Well the Bible says the earth is flat.


2,220 posted on 03/27/2007 4:27:05 PM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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