Posted on 03/04/2007 8:21:23 AM PST by Iscool
The Simon Peter referred to by the ECF was obviously Simon "Magus" Pater....and the ECF were..... obviously mistaken here. It has been pointed out by me that "These Twelve" were instructed not to go (evangelize) the Gentiles [Matthew 10:5]. I will choose scripture over ECF!
I never said that the ECF writings were divinely inspired. I said I use them for historical reference as I do Josephus, Herodotus and others.
However in 49 AD Claudius issued a decree for all the Jews to leave Rome and from then on they were personnas non grata there.
Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.
Babylon was a caravan stop, not nearly what it used to be, but a great place to establish a church, since it was a transit route east and west, north and south. And according to Josephus the surrounding area was home to nearly a million Jews, while Rome had at most 20,000.
The Church fathers were always in agreement that Babylon was code for Rome.
Do you know who has that code book now? Is that code book part of the canon of scripture? Did they also have a secret decoder ring that came with it?
**hearing and listening were two different ways of receiving. Listening trumps it every time.**
The priest was so right! God bless!
Uncle Chip and I share the same views about how Simon Magus counterfeited Christianity in the first century. He is the other side of "WE".
By the way....I've been following along with your progress on your feet....haven't yet had a chance to offer my wishes for your complete recovery....and would like to do so now.
Thank you.
LOl! Yeah, that wouldn't have been important to faith+0
I'll tell you, though, it means a lot to the people of Christ who were attendance, those Catholics (and non-Catholics) who came to see his slides and hear his comments on the Holy Land.
Haven't ever had the privlege of traveling there and I missed the presentation..........so I guess I'll have to see it another time.
For his next pilgrimage our priest is talking about going to the Eastern Mediterranean -- Turkey, etc.
Just remember that "granchildren are your reward for not drowning your teenagers!"
Because this is an important lesson for Christians to learn...that you can't spritual things aren't something to be bought or sold.
As a comparison, look at the story of Annanias and Sapphira (the whole story runs from Acts 4:32 - Acts 5:11). That is a whole lot of writing talking about a lowly couple. But, again, it teaches a valuable lesson: don't try to lie to God.
OK, I got from my exchange with Diego that this Simon Magus went to Rome. And that he was there during the reign of Emporer Claudius.
And, thirdly, because after Christ's ascension into heaven the devils put forward certain men who said that they themselves were gods; and they were not only not persecuted by you, but even deemed worthy of honours. There was a Samaritan, Simon, a native of the village called Gitto, who in the reign of Claudius Cæsar, and in your royal city of Rome, did mighty acts of magic, by virtue of the art of the devils operating in him. He was considered a god, and as a god was honoured by you with a statue, which statue was erected on the river Tiber, between the two bridges, and bore this inscription, in the language of Rome:—"Simoni Deo Sancto," "To Simon the holy God." And almost all the Samaritans, and a few even of other nations, worship him, and acknowledge him as the first god; and a woman, Helena, who went about with him at that time, and had formerly been a prostitute, they say is the first idea generated by him. And a man, Menander, also a Samaritan, of the town Capparetæa, a disciple of Simon, and inspired by devils, we know to have deceived many while he was in Antioch by his magical art. He persuaded those who adhered to him that they should never die, and even now there are some living who hold this opinion of his. And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of the devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take their opinions from these men, are, as we before said, called Christians; just as also those who do not agree with the philosophers in their doctrines, have yet in common with them the name of philosophers given to them. And whether they perpetrate those fabulous and shameful deeds—the upsetting of the lamp, and promiscuous intercourse, and eating human flesh—we know not; but we do know that they are neither persecuted nor put to death by you, at least on account of their opinions. But I have a treatise against all the heresies that have existed already composed, which, if you wish to read it, I will give you.Justin Martyr, First Apology, 26
Irenaeus also spoke of him in his work, Adversus Haereses (I,23).
But, as I pointed out in my earlier post to you (to which you never responded), Irenaeus also, in the same work (3,1) discusses the Church at Rome being founded by Peter.
So it seems, from that reference to Irenaeus and the others I cited in the above post, that the Ante-Nicene Fathers are in agreement that Peter founded the Church in Rome.
Having said that, if you can provide me a citation of where an Ante-Nicene Father specifically supports your claims, I'd be happy to look up the reference.
Or, let me guess, you're calling the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church a gnostic sect...sure thing.
Oh, OK. I understand now...
You will use a reference when it supports your argument but then reject your reference when it disagrees with your opinion.
Is that how it works?
The ENTIRE appeal of the "Simon Pater" fabrication is that pater rhymes with Peter. However, the Christians/Jews in Rome would have conversed in either Latin, Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, in which case pater DOES NOT RHYME with Kephas, Cephas or Petros.
Wait! You mean no red shoes? That's asking me to believe a LOT!
;-)
Excavations have been ongoing under the Basilica of St. Peter. Two tombs have been found underneath the High Altar. The bones in the first were a collection from different people and animals. The bones in the second were of a man about 60 years old. It is not known if they are the bones of St. Peter, but the monument over the tomb is estimated to be from about 160 AD, because of the complex of mausoleums (from the 2nd & 3rd centuries) in which it is located, underneath the Basilica. See this article for more details:
http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/historyandclassics/nav02.cfm?nav02=27355&nav01=25087
The excavation sight can be viewed today if one goes to the Vatican.
Yeah....it's called "Using Your Head"!
One small correction to your statement.....I will use a reference when it supports scripture.
Then Jesus said unto them, "Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me." Matthew 28:10 KJV
Why did He call the Apostles "brethren?" Maybe because "brethren" and "brothers" means more than just siblings?
He might of had red shoes...but I think they would have been red sandals.
The statement "Our Father" in the Lord's prayer indicates that he thought of us all as his brethren.
The words of Jesus:
"Go ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway even unto the end of the world." Amen. Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
Since you are interpreting the Scriptures on your own, how do you know your interpretation is the correct one? How do you know you aren't twisting and convoluting everything into something that it isn't? How do you know you have not made a mistake somewhere over the past 40 years and have veered off onto a really weird tangent? Who tells you that you are on the right track? Yourself?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.