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To: Forest Keeper; The_Reader_David; Kolokotronis
Does this mean that you really, truly believe that we do not do the types of things you list above?

FK, I was responding to your question "How do the Orthodox 'get to work'?" I was not commenting on how the Protestants 'get to work.'

I was responding to your earlier comment "So, shed that cozy, don't-worry-be-happy macarena attitude dear protestant brothers, and get to work!"

Being a Protestant seems cozy and 'don't-worry-be-happy' because a Protestant is free to believe whatever (s)he wants and to worship in whatever manner (s)he deems appropriate. Custom-made rleigion to one's own preference and style. Certainly, neither Judaism, nor Apostolic Christianity are that way.

FK: FK: "My conception of theosis was an attainment of something, but here it sounds more like an awarding of something."

Kosta: Yes, it's called likeness to Christ.

FK: So theosis is the awarding of a likeness to Christ? May I assume that this award is based upon the performance of all the deeds you listed above to a certain degree?

In #6222, I said: "There is no salvation before judgment. ... Only after judgment will we be either saved or condemned; only then will we have a ticket to heaven or hell. ... and while none of us deserve[s] salvation, some will receive it for no other reason that God's incredible mercy."

The "ticket" is not an award; it is a right of passage based on a mericiful and just decision on how we are in our hearts. It is not what we are but how we are in our hearts that counts, FK.

Job was not righteous in God's eyes because he was sinless, but because God knew that in his heart Job would never blame God even for his worst misfortune.

The poor old woman in the NT who gives her last two copper coins to the synagogue is making a huge sacrifice out of love for God, because she is giving to God or for God's cause everything she owned. We, on the other hand, don't.

It should be no effort to know who meets the criteria for God's mercy. In fact, Christ told the rich man to sell everything and follow Him, and the rich man couldn't. He loved the world too much. Most of do, even though we probably all think that we are decent and God-fearing people.

When I answered "Yes," it was to the first part of your statement (re: attaining), and not the latter, as you took it (re: awarding); salvation is awarded, as a crowing recognition of you as someone who has attained the likeness to Christ in God's eyes.

7,470 posted on 01/24/2007 9:59:16 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Blogger; The_Reader_David; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg
Being a Protestant seems cozy and 'don't-worry-be-happy' because a Protestant is free to believe whatever (s)he wants and to worship in whatever manner (s)he deems appropriate. Custom-made religion to one's own preference and style. Certainly, neither Judaism, nor Apostolic Christianity are that way.

Unfortunately, that means you still don't have a fair understanding of the Reformed faith. As always, I do not speak for all Protestants, but WE are FULLY bound to scripture (as are other "Bible-believing" Protestant faiths). It just happens to be in an interpretation you disagree with. None of what you describe is what we teach or experience in our worship.

In #6222, I said: "There is no salvation before judgment. ... Only after judgment will we be either saved or condemned; only then will we have a ticket to heaven or hell. ... and while none of us deserve[s] salvation, some will receive it for no other reason that God's incredible mercy."

........... When I answered "Yes," it was to the first part of your statement (re: attaining), and not the latter, as you took it (re: awarding); salvation is awarded, as a crowing recognition of you as someone who has attained the likeness to Christ in God's eyes.

Ah, now we may be getting somewhere. Thanks for the clarification. I had been operating under two generalizations that I thought I had picked up along the way. One is that theosis is "like" what I call salvation. The other is that a very few attain theosis during physical life. I take it now that what I call salvation is more different from theosis than I had thought.

In any event, it appears everyone agrees that theosis is not an earned award.

7,870 posted on 01/28/2007 4:17:53 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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