Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Mutatis mutandis , like of course I personally would add "or by the Church", I would agree.
But, golly darn, how are we going to have fun if we don't call each other horrible things and generally "rejoice in the evil"? Rejoicing in the good is just so, y'know, BORing!
I left my sarcasm tag in my other pants.
Michael Wyschogrod (called "one of the most interesting Jewish theologians of recent decades" by Fr. R. J. Neuhaus in First Things, number 168, 12/06, from which I am quoting) reports,
"When Barth said to me that Jews have only the promise, but not the fulfillment, I replied that a promise from God is a sure thing and therefore, if we have the promise, we just about have the fulfillment."Sometimes I think the whole work of the Christian is to learn to "cast all thy care on Him that careth for thee," or, as I like to say, to learn not to work.
Apollies for the verebosity of previous post. When I get ttired I talk too much. Heck, when I'm NOT tired I talk too much!
I had THAT vetted by a scholarly Dominican.
The first serious attempt at theology I ever wrote (the attempt was serious, the theology laughable, but I was young) was halted by a kind of spiritual aphasia. I didn't know what to do, so I punted. I fasted and prayed and went to a priest about my sins and went to Hoyy Communion. (This was when I was Episcopalian.)
Then I knew what I had to write. I hd been treating the whole thing like a head game, and God graciously yanked my chain.
That still hasn't kept me from promising myself that if I ever win the gaazilion dollar lottery I will find every copy of that thing and burn them all, and deny that I know anything about it.
That would be me. I've been asking my priest for frequent flyer miles. He said he'd get back to me. (Mind you, I've also told them that things would be more efficient if they would put an "Express Lane: 10 sins or fewer" sign up by one of the confessionals, but do they listen to me?)
But here's the deal: extremely little by extremely little, I'm getting a weeny bit more "recollected." Sometimes I can see a particular sinful act sneaking up on me, and I can head it off. More often (though not nearly as often as I would like) I notice the act just as I've done it. So I can stop, shake myself, and apologize to God and to whomever I just hurt.
I figure, at this rate in about 2 or 3 thousand years I might be marginally better -- almost perceptibly better -- than I am now. Thank God it doesn't depend on me.
But what I'm saying is that I'll settle for gains of mere millimeters. Yeah it's embarrassing to have to say to God that I blew it again. Usually I try to blame it on Him, "Thus shall I always do when Thou leavest me to myself," but He is having none of that. "Dawg, I didn't leave you, YOU ignored me." "How come You're right all the time?" "Lucky for you that I am." "Yessir. Thank you."
Josephus is pretty much the only source available to peek into that era. The bad part of it is that he was a spineless character who, like Eusebius (the first Church historian), was prone to to things that make both of them highly unreliable. I would never take what Josephus (or Eusebius) says as normative.
The same problem occurs when trying to cite collections of the LXX from the fourth or fifth century as establishing the normative canon of the Tanakh from the first
But the same could be said of the oldest Hebrew Bible which is a 10th century (AD!) copy of the originals. The problem with LXX is that it demonstrates clearer than other sources the corruption of Scriptural content (and, by the same token, the uncertainty as to which copy is "truer"), because evidence of tampering and personal additions and deletions of various authors is more evident and traceable.
But, indirect evidence suggests that the older versions of the LXX may be closer to the original (based on such comments as made in the 4th century by +Augustine in his Retractions, etc.). The unfortunate part is that the Eastern Orthodox Church uses the 5th c. Alexandrian Codex as normative, which seems to be the least reliable of the oldest three known.
It wasn't always good enough for the Apostles. If they saw fit to go back and render a fresh translation from the original Hebrew text in many cases rather than simply citing the LXX consistently, then we should follow their example and do the same
Just out of curiosity, which Apostles quote from the Hebrew text? +Paul is a special case, and it does not surprise that he would quote from the Hebrew text. First, he was a Pharisee, and he claims he studied Scripture in Jerusalem under a prominent Jewish biblical authority.
But I would be curious, if you have such information, as to which other writers of the NT use the Hebrew Text in addition to LXX.
No, but the Orthodox and Catholic at least have the courage to admit and go through the pain rather than to say, as the Protestants do, "God knows my sins, I can't help it, so pecca fortier!"
Pain has a way of extinguishing behavior and thoughts. Avoiding pain doesn't. Repeated confessions are spiritual growing pains. Some find it easier to love God by avoidng them.
That was the basic premise of the Law. Do things pleasing to God and you will become acceptable to God. One does not become righteous by listening, but by doing the works.
In this case +Paul clearly says that the doers of the law will be (not are) justified before God.
It's not talked about veyr much, but it would not be considered "normal" (i.e. the way God intended it). I think active homosexual lifstyle is treated as a choice, a preference, no different from other covetous bahavior, and therefore a sin.
You can't be a Christian and still wish to live in sin
I got news for you: there are many, probably most Christians who not only wish to live in sin, but actually do. And, funny thing is, they don't do anyting about it! So, either God wants them to live in sin, or they choose to. Which is it?
It seems pretty straight forward to me that Jesus' ministry was not about replacing the legalistic structure of the Pharisees and Sadducees with another structure of the same ilk. I believe God telling Israel that he did not want Kings is a foreshadowing of this as well.
God wants us to trust in him. The Holy Spirit guided the creation of the Canon so that we would always have a sure foundation to find the truth and not be misguided by the social, or political pressures, of the day.
I think it's interesting that the merger between State and Religion occurred after the Canon was recognized. It could well be that the Holy Spirit was ensuring that when the pressures of the State began to try and change how we would understand God there would always be SCRIPTURE to testify to the truth.
It's interesting that in the other passages that correspond to Matthew 16:18 (Mark 8:27-30, Luke 9:18-20) that there is no indication of special status for Peter, or for the Apostles. I believe the keys to the Kingdom of heaven is the Holy Spirit and those that are bound are those that believe in Jesus, just as Peter had just done, and those that don't are loosed in heaven.
Amen!
I think it is also a reflection of our human frailty. We just can't accept the idea of a free gift of GRACE. We have a need to create payment i.e., works. The works that we do are fruits of the Spirit and follow the indwelling of the Holy Spirit they don't precede it or cause it.
Thats going around.. Betty Boop spanked me earlier in this thread..
I deserved it too..
What a great way to start the day!
Amen! Amen! Amen!
;-)
The Vatican didn't abrogate the sin of lust. It's two separate issues.
And if you don't lust and you don't have sexual relations outside of marriage and you don't marry a person of the same sex, what else there? The sin of being?
Good way indeed. Many thanks for the good words.
Yes, the gay community just loves the Catholic Church. / s.
You're reachin' big time, Harley.
Protestants confess their sins as well. We go straight to God without a middleman, but we are told to confess our sins to one another. You seem to have a bias for protestants. Too bad. We're going to be spending a lot of time together in heaven.
Protestants confess their sins as well. We go straight to God without a middleman, but we are told to confess our sins to one another. You seem to have a bias for protestants. Too bad. We're going to be spending a lot of time together in heaven.
And, dear .30Carbine, I ditto your amen on the collection of Scriptures at 6758 concerning the importance of the name of God.
What gets me on this thread is that many of you think we protestants are just heretics and are going to hell in a handbasket. True Christians know when they are sinning and we ask for God to forgive us just as much as Catholics do. Catholics don't have a corner on the market on God's forgiveness,nor do EO's. I am just as much Christ's as a Catholic or an EO. Mxxx
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.