Pope set to bring back Latin Mass that divided the Church

The Times Online ^ | October 11, 2006 | Ruth Gledhill

[Dajjal]

The new indult would permit any priest to introduce the Tridentine Mass to his church, anywhere in the world, unless his bishop has explicitly forbidden it in writing.

Well, if bishops can forbid the Traditional Mass, then this alleged document shouldn't be dubbed a "Universal" Indult, should it?

Also, "permitting" priests to say an "Indult" Mass is not the same as affirming that the Traditional Mass was never abrogated.

The advantages of the Mass, according to the faithful, are in its uniformity and the fact that movements and gestures are prescribed, so that there is no room for “personalisation”

No, the "advantage" to the Traditional Mass is that it is traditional -- its roots reach back to Apostolic times. It was not concocted out of whole cloth by a handful of "experts" in the 1960s.

[mockingbyrd]

If the Church was that united, it wouldn't have fallen apart so quickly.

The Church has always had divisions, although we tended to refer to them as heretics, apostates and schismatic. Just look at all the Protestant denominations, those are all separations from the Church.

There will always be struggles for the faithful, no matter when.

[Talking_Mouse]

My only concern is that if a universal indult is granted, that many priests who do not know Latin very well, or the Tridentine rite, will try to celebrate it, with bad results (perhaps even on purpose to sabotage the entire enterprise). So, if this comes to pass, let us pray that the law of unintended results does not "mess things up". Hopefully, the indult will also specify standards which must be followed.

If lots of priests who do not know either Latin or the Tridentine Mass well celebrate it there will be bad results. I go to enough Masses where Anglo priests celebrate Mass in Spanish and see well intentioned priests messing up a Mass, this is just a different language not different rubrics. It takes about 2 years to get the language right and another 2 -3 to be comfortable in the celebration.

Please do no ascribe to malice most of the bad results that will come when priests who have not used Latin for a full Mass or have not celebrated the Tridentine Mass celerate one. Many people who are in love with the Tridentine Mass are used to priests who are exacting in their celebration of the Mass. They do not remember all of the sloppily celebrated Tridentine Mass, pre VII.

I too hope that there will be a universal indult, because I know that many of my sisters and brothers yearn for this celebration. However, if there is an universal indult said brothers and sisters are going to have to accept about a 5 year shake down period while many priest learn for the first time or relearn this Mass.

Mary, queen of the clergy, obtain for us a number of holy priests. Who can celebrate both the Tridentine and the NO Mass well. Thank you.

[Pyro7480]

I see your point. But as someone on another forum where orthodox/traditionalist Catholics gather said, "This puts the progressivist bishop in a tight spot. If he refuses the TLM to his priests then does he create the pretext for the Pope to impose a group of Pontifical Right (such as the new Good Shepherd Institute) upon his diocese? I have a feeling Pope Benedict has done some homework."

[vox_freedom]

Thanks for the article, but I'll await Pope Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio before celebrating. It can't come soon enough.

[franky]

Just remember that the Gospel is on the left side of the altar. Altar boys will need training. Unfortunately they are poor at what they do now.

Info on Latin Mass

http://lphrc.org/trid.html

[Pyro7480]

Also, the rubrics call for altar boys only. That's going to be problematic for many of your typical Catholics these days.

[franky]

##"Just look at all the Protestant denominations, those are all separations from the Church."##

I look at the fallout as a type of pyramid. The Catholic Church at the point on top and the Protestant denominations splitting among themselves over several centuries to the point of the broad base.

Even the Lutheran Church has split into several denominations from Luther's original denomination.

[FJ290]

I'm a Vatican II baby and don't know a word of Latin

Latin Grammar

Latin Made Simple

University of Notre Dame Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid

Start learning some online with the last link from Notre Dame. Good luck!

[franky]

Yes. My cousin and his wife died two months apart (they were in their mid 80s) and they each had a Requiem Mass in Latin with Gregorian Chanting.

There were 6 altar boys ages 5 to the oldest of 17. The 17 year old guided each boy with a nod of his head and assisted the priest as a Deacon would. They all wore hassocks of white over black. The priest wore the traditional black and silver.

The boys were well trained. The 5 year old looked like an angel especially when he and the others sat around the altar on the steps. I imagined they were the Angels sitting at the feet of our Lord.

They were very holy occasions.

[Petrosius]

Ego renuntio, decernis tu.

[onedoug]

Beautiful thought.

Though some post-Benedict imam will likely have other thougts...in Arabic.

[samiam1972]

This would be wonderful!

My kids just started in the children's choir at Latin Mass parish. We don't know any Latin yet, however, I came across this site that pronounces the prayers in Latin for you. It has really helped my kids (8 and 6) with the Salve Regina they are singing(chant).

http://lphrc.org/rmk/Rosary/index.html

[Talking_Mouse]

Also, the rubrics call for altar boys only. That's going to be problematic for many of your typical Catholics these days.

Then it probably won't be celebrated in those parishes. The wonderful thing about a universal indult is that is will allow the celebration of the Tridentine Mass for those who wish it, not require it for those who prefer the NO Mass.

[dsc]

I suspect the priests here would rather nail their tongues to the altar than celebrate the Tridentine.

[Robert Drobot]

But great for grooming young Catholic men for the priesthood.

[Jeff Chandler]

Where does she explain how the Latin mass divided the Church!?

Exactly! It united the Church.

[Wonder Warthog]

"No, the "advantage" to the Traditional Mass is that it is traditional -- its roots reach back to Apostolic times. It was not concocted out of whole cloth by a handful of "experts" in the 1960s."

No, actually it doesn't. The original languages of the Mass was Aramaiac, and then Greek. There is nothing whatsoever "traditional" about the Mass in Latin. It's just another language.

Sorry, but I prefer the Mass to be in the vernacular. It is very distracting to try to follow the English "notes" in the Missal as the mass is said in Latin.

For you purists, if a parish wants to have a "Latin mass" as ONE service along with the vernacular, then fine. But I won't attend the Latin one.

[Diva]

My pastor and my parish are ready.

[Diva]

My only concern is that if a universal indult is granted, that many priests who do not know Latin very well, or the Tridentine rite, will try to celebrate it, with bad results (perhaps even on purpose to sabotage the entire enterprise).

Could be but I would think those who are inclind to dislike the Tridentine are just too lazy. I doubt most Catholics will even notice, those who do are already eagerly await the opportunity. What will be interesting is to see if any bishops begin to Celebrate the Tridentine and whether seminaries encourage the learning of the Tridentine Mass.