The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[sinatorhellary]

Ps. 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Please read the entire chapter (vs1-8). These gods being addressed in Ps 82:

• judge unjustly
• partial to the wicked
• are subject to death
• are subject to falling from their position
• are roundly condemned by God through his prophet

Pretty sure I don't aspire to be that kind of god. Do you?

[sinatorhellary]

Next time a Mormon claims to be a Christian, ask them if, since you are a Christian, it would be accurate to refer to yourself as a Mormon.

[colorcountry]

Well said and completely in agreement with my post. I can't tell if you're arguing with me or not. Perhaps I didn't say is succinctly enough the first time. Faith that is alive, will in turn manifest itself in works. Faith that is dead will return no works, so therefore it isn't faith at all...it is dead...doesn't exist.

[sinatorhellary]

I am not arguing, but hopefully clarifying.

I think sometimes we (I include myself) use accomodative shorthand and we can wind up looking like we're supporting a position 180-degrees in conflict with the word.

You said "by faith only" and James said "not by faith only". My latter paragraphs were an attempt to clarify what I think could be considered a contradiction.

Paul says we're saved by faith - James says we're not justified by works and not by faith only. Unless these two received conflicting inspirations (they didn't), then the faith spoken of by Paul must be different than the "faith only" spoken of by James.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not a Calvinist. Nor do I agree with the Mormon position of salvation in Christ "after all we can do" (or something like that). Mormonism is a lot like the Oriental Pagan religions in that regard (and others - see "The God Makers").

I do not agree with the Calvinistic concept of faith being something forced upon an individual and being denied to another. I believe in the "whoever" in John 3:16 and the "all men everywhere" of Acts 17:30. But that's a discussion for another thread. :-)

[colorcountry]

Thanks for your post. I think you clairified my position, but since I do not always write my thoughts succintly, I appreciate the help.

My main point of that post is, works without faith is dead, just as is faith without works is dead. True faith inspires works, dead faith does not. It is my belief that this is what James was trying to describe. Abraham had the faith to carry out the work of God. If he had not had faith, we would never have obeyed God's command to kill Isaac. The willingness to obey, to sacrifice his own son proved his faith.

When we are in Christ, we desire to, and do his will. But if we do his will in order to garner reward in this life or the one to come, we are denying his Grace. I think we are admonished to do his will because we love him, we have the faith and desire to do what pleases him. I also know that there are a lot of official members of the LDS that do indeed have God approved works and faith.

[restornu]

Next time a Mormon claims to be a Christian, ask them if, since you are a Christian, it would be accurate to refer to yourself as a Mormon.

There are serveral to ways to discuss this!

1- when I was mainstream Christian and only had the Bible it would not be accurate to call me Bible, or by a name of a book!

2- Since Mormon is a name of a book it would not be accurate to refer to myself or other to call me Mormon. (unless they wanted show contempt or disrespect)

3- The name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, those who are cordail us call us LDS.

[colorcountry]

Why is it that one of the Churches official website is mormon.org?

[sinatorhellary]

Agreed. The law says "guilty". Grace says "Forgiven - He paid the penalty".

I have read several Mormon and anti-Mormon sources which leave me with the impression that by doing good works the Mormon earns some sort of elevated status in the next life. And that there are many levels of existance one may have to go through to achieve godhood.

Sounds like paganism to me.

Any comments?

[sinatorhellary]

No disrespect was intended. Please forgive me my error.

Let me rephrase, then:

Next time an LDS claims to be a Christian, ask them if, since you are a Christian, it would be accurate to refer to yourself as an LDS.

[restornu]

Thank you CC for the link to the Question and Answer site

[restornu]

Yes we are the Latter Day Saints

Paul always refered to those in the Churches saints

2 Cor. 1: 1
1 PAUL, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Eph. 1: 1
1 PAUL, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philip. 1: 1
1 PAUL and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

[colorcountry]

What you heard is correct. Works earn them an eventual stab at becoming Gods themselves. We've already posted links on this post to official doctrine that says it is so.

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html

When we lived with our Heavenly Father, he explained a plan for our progression. We could become like him, an exalted being. The plan required that we be separated from him and come to earth. This separation was necessary to prove whether we would obey our Father's commandments ....

...If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven....

...The Lord has promised, "All things are theirs" (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).

They will become gods.

They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

...They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge.

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

[colorcountry]

So the term Mormon is kind-of like the "n" word. You can call your brother that, but we'd better not call you that because it is offensive?

[restornu]

So the term Mormon is kind-of like the "n" word. You can call your brother that, but we'd better not call you that because it is offensive?

No CC thoes are your words!

Mormon is a nickname not the accurate name!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Sounds like paganism to me.

gods coming to earth, becoming human and rising from dead sounds real pagan to me.

[colorcountry]

I was asking a question restornu, since you seemed to be offended when sinatorhellery referred to you as a Mormon. I know when I was active LDS, that's what we called ourselves. I thought perhaps something had changed that I was unaware of.

[restornu]

If the LDS or any child of God lives their day in the Name of Jesus Christ than we all are pagans by this terms!

So which is it can't it both ways either one does the will of the Lord in the Name of Jesus Christ or do some get to decide for God who walk is valid or not?

*****

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit o­n his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people o­ne from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep o­n his right, but the goats o­n the left. Then the King will say to those o­n his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to o­ne of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

"Then he will say to those o­n his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to o­ne of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." - Matt 25

con't

[restornu]

you must be bored to continue this with all your seven generation hasn't someone informed you!:)

Mormon is a nickname it will always be with us even though it is not accurate, but it does come in handy when you need an extra link on the internet! LOL

[colorcountry]

LOL

[justshutupandtakeit]

Edgar Cayce was not conscious of what he was saying while in the trances. He was appalled at the beginning for what he considered to be unChristian statements.