Posted on 04/27/2006 3:03:34 PM PDT by restornu
Who is the God of your god? Does your god worship a being higher than himself? Does your father in heaven have a Father in Heaven?
Just how far down the line will you be when you become a god?
Besides President Hinckley is a little older than you (I think, 92?)
Are you saying that Hinkley was mistaken in his response about LDS Doctrine? If we can't count on the sole Living Prophet of God and President of the LDS Church to give us the answer in regard to what is or is not official church doctrine, then who can we look to?
Does your god worship a being higher than himself?
Does your father in heaven have a Father in Heaven?
Are you saying that Hinkley was mistaken in his response about LDS Doctrine?
If we can't count on the sole Living Prophet of God and President of the LDS Church to give us the answer in regard to what is or is not official church doctrine, then who can we look to?
**8There were two houses after the split, the house of Judah, composed of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin, and the house of Israel, composed of the rest. The house of Israel is pretty clearly specified.***
The term "house of Israel" is often used interchangably for both groups. Also, many from the Northern kingdom moved south into Judah when the northern kingdom turned to idolatry.
Be careful, that's the Word of God you're talking about. I thought Mormons believed in the Bible. They even profess it on their official website. Now you're calling it heresy! (Oh I just read your post again, I guess you are calling it hearsay.) sorry!
Ezek 37
15 ¶ The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 ¶ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Well if you don't know, that's fine. Even an "I don't know" to those questions makes it clear to everyone that LDS theology and Christian theology are mutually incompatible.
Because I have already answered those questions today on one of these thread if you really want to know!
Being, at best, agnostic and more likely atheistic, I find it amazing the lengths that some of you here on FreeRepublic will go to discredit a group that is as self-sufficient, conservative, and reliably Republican as the Mormons.
In the interest of full disclosure, I was born in Utah, and attended a Mormon church until I was 12 years old. I don't currently ascribe to any religion, Christian or otherwise.
And what were your answers?
Yes, they did, that would be why there are references to other tribes in the predominately Judah remnant during the New Testament. But the Northern house was still population heavy compared the Judah.
I suppose the "house of Israel" could be used collectively, after all, they all were Israel, and Matthew 15:24 would tend to support that.
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
But by the same token He would have included the greatest mass of Israel, for they were indeed lost, and there are indications that one or more of the disciples in addition to Paul were up in Europe. Jesus was sent, as He said, not to just to Judah and Benjamin, but all of Israel. I'd doubt that the location of the rest was hidden from Jesus.
There is also evidence of remnants of the remaining house of Israel in Europe and Assyrian records that indicate that direction for the remnant after Assyria was defeated. They would have had three/five hundred years to get there.
I don't think the chapters of any of the four Gospels are in chronological order, so it's probable that when Jesus instructed the apostles and charged them to go teach, it was referring to their life mission, not just a trip out to the towns in the region.
Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
The prophecies haven't come to pass, yet.
***I suppose the "house of Israel" could be used collectively, after all, they all were Israel, and Matthew 15:24 would tend to support that.***
Here are some better references.
2Ch 20:35 And after this did Jehoshaphat king of Judah join himself with Ahaziah king of Israel, who did very wickedly:
2Ch 21:2 And he had brethren the sons of Jehoshaphat, Azariah, and Jehiel, and Zechariah, and Azariah, and Michael, and Shephatiah: all these [were] the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel.
Was Jehoshaphat BOTH king of Judah and Israel? These say he was.
2Ch 28:1 Ahaz [was] twenty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem: but he did not [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, like David his father:
Ahaz, in Jerusalem was king of Judah.
But he was ALSO King of Israel.
2Ch 28:19 For the LORD brought Judah low because of Ahaz king of Israel; for he made Judah naked, and transgressed sore against the LORD.
Jhn 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Or was he!
Jhn 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
And Paul..Israelite or Jew?
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
2Cr 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so [am] I. Are they Israelites? so [am] I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so [am] I.
Act 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
Upon return from captivity Ezra 6:17 says they offered dedication sacrifices for ALL ISRAEL and according to the number of the tribes of Israel.
I think that is plenty to show that enough returned of the whole house of Israel returned to Judah to be considered Israel.
***In the interest of full disclosure, I was born in Utah, and attended a Mormon church until I was 12 years old. I don't currently ascribe to any religion, Christian or otherwise.***
As Madaline Murray O'Hair said years ago on the Larry King Live Show, "The best atheists are former Mormons and Catholics."
(I watched that show.)
I think she did more to damage the moral fabric of this country than any other single influence in history.
Religion is important. I realize that, despite my personal dis-belief.
I figured that my "full disclosure" would be pounced upon as a means to further damage the reputations of Mormons, though I had hoped it would have been a reason to see the similarities eclipsing the differences between religious conservatives.
Guess not.
Washi, if you are referencing my post about the similarities between Muhammand and Joseph Smith, I pointed out a comparison that Joseph Smith hmself did. And nothing I said in any way detracted from Mormons or their religion.
Those similarities are a reality. There are also dissimilarities. There is nothing inherently wrong in pointing out (on a thread that challenges someone to produce something like the Book of Mormon) to mention the Koran. It is a valid point.
If you continue reading the thread you will notice that I am an unbelieving Mormon or as some would call me, apostate.
***I figured that my "full disclosure" would be pounced upon as a means to further damage the reputations of Mormons, though I had hoped it would have been a reason to see the similarities eclipsing the differences between religious conservatives.
Guess not.****
Set back, give yourself some time. You are not the only one who has left a church, went through an atheist phase, then found better church!
If the inter-faith sniping is any indication, I'll consider my atheism that "better church." Thanks.
FWIW-
As I understand it, Judah always has the crown, that is, the tribe retained the royal rulership of Israel with their line (which is why the Messiah would come form that line). So, it's not improbable that a ruler of Judah would likewise claim to rule Israel.
The other tribes, sunk in sin, would of course, differ. Israel was given over to the Assyrians for their sin. Judah was given over to the Babylonians for theirs.
Sorry that LDS deserve a VOICE too inspite of what think!
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