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To: ScratchHatch
Second, even if he was talking about the Bible (which he obviously was not), it has undergone countless changes throughout the years, adding and subtracting to and from what is considered canon. The Bible you use today has undergone numerous additions and subtractions, so I guess by using it you're in the same camp as those who use the Book of Mormon.

Not quite.

The Bible has not gone through countless revisions.

Second ... the books of the Bible were agreed upon by the unified church.

This has not been the case for the Book of Mormon.

Your next point quotes Galations, regarding the preching of other gospels. Mormons do not preach other gospels, they (claim to) preach the true gospel of Christ. Unfortunately, many aspects of the gospel had been or were unclear - this really can't be refuted, how else can one explain all the various sects ?

The Bible itself refutes the claim that it promotes uncertainty.

The Bible states that it is perfectly adequate for every christian belief and endeavor.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Mormonism, on the other hand, at least claims to have input from God in clearing up these uncertainties.

Of course the scriptures of the Bible claim inspiration by God (see 2 Timothy 3:16 above).

Also note the following scripture ...
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The claim of the champions of the Bible scriptures have been accepted by the church.

Joseph Smith's claim has yet to be accepted.

273 posted on 01/03/2006 6:00:42 PM PST by Quester (If you can't trust Jesus, ... who can you trust ?)
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To: Quester

Hey, yeah, and I was so unsurprised when the MSM hid the fact that when the Dead Sea Scrolls were deciphered, there was not one deviation from the Psalms or the Book of Isaiah found. Our Bible is sure and without revisions.


278 posted on 01/03/2006 6:27:26 PM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Quester; ScratchHatch
The claim of the champions of the Bible scriptures have been accepted by the church.

Joseph Smith's claim has yet to be accepted.

The Bible of what we have of it was decided under the state of political uprise.

Constantine the Great

Now Constantine was given a vision to put the symbol of the Cross on his Uniforms

Although greatly outnumbered, Constantine had been advised in a dream to put the sign of the cross on his soldiers shields and he would prevail in battle.

Many like to romantisized this by saying Constantine fully embraced Chistianity, but is it not true all we know is what was told to us years laters on Constantine death he asked to be baptized.

Any religion convertion I heard of where one has a vision and one fully embraces the faith they take on the mantel of Christ right away such as in Saul/Paul etc.

They don't wait until their death bed!

Shortly after his victory, Constantine established the new city of Constantinople on the ancient site of Byzantium (now Istanbul) relocating the capitol of the Roman Empire. Located on the Bosphorus, a strategic position between the East and West, it was a strategic move. It also left a large amount of the political baggage in old Rome.

With Christianity now tolerated and embraced by the sole Emperor of the Roman Empire, the fortunes of Christianity surged forward. If Constantine sought a unified religion in which to advance his political agenda, he was to be greatly disappointed. The Christian church was far from unified, itself going through power struggles for leadership.

At best we could say Constantine was a Friend to the Christians!

Constantine died in 337 CE in Nicomedia, a few days after he was baptized into the Christian faith by the Arian bishop Eusebius. His support of Christianity, the building of several churches in Rome (St Peter’s Basilica) and several in Constantinople (Hagia Sophia), and the lifting of the persecutions against Christians earn him the title of founder of Christianity. Whether he embraced the new religion for political or spiritual reasons is now academic; he gave Christianity it’s first important advancement toward becoming what it is today.

****

The Lost Books of the Bible

Forbidden Not Lost
Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.

What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as “Protestant", is unrecognizable form either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity begun by Constantine.

There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are “lost”; to the Church they are “forbidden”. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.

One of the more obvious forms of discovery comes from the surviving books themselves, which sight works not present in the existing collection. Also many do not know that the Apocryphal books were actually included in the King James translation until they were officially purged by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885. Other writings also connect many books to the first church. Whatever the number before the purge by the formation of Catholicism by Constantine; even one lost book is a great loss indeed.

We claim no expertise concerning the authenticity of any the lost books and leave this judgment to the reader. We do, however, strongly reject the self-proclaimed authority of any dogmatically motivated and church-controlled mortals who think themselves qualified to make such decisions. One of the most logical and realistic concepts in the Bible is the caution that one should prove all things. We believe that proving the veracity of a given thing is an individual responsibility, which must not, and should not be the duty of those who think themselves better judges.(non-LDS site)

The point is to be able to hear one another than to review, ponder and pray over those things that have loose ends, the LDS believe that the Lord has not left us groping in the dark, but that the Holy Spirit does witness to those things that are of the Lord!

296 posted on 01/03/2006 7:47:46 PM PST by restornu (Everyone has a photographic memory some just don't have film!:)
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