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To: jo kus; Agrarian
While there is a school of thought in Hellenistic Judaism that personifies Wisdom, it is not clear from the very few verses that this Wisdom IS of the Essence of God Himself - just that this Wisdom was present with God during Creation

Gnostics, for one, used the word Sophia (Wisdom) in the context of a "deity" and also as a Gnostic implant to make their "gospels" appear genuine. But Wisdom is also taught by the Eastern Church when not referring to the Hypistases as Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, but as Wisdom, Word and the Spirit of God.

Clearly, the Wisdom of God, His Word, and His Spirit share one common (divine) nature, essence or ousia which is indivisible and One. There is only one divine Nature and three divine Hypostases., just as there is one nature of an entity known as "jo kus" which is made known to the world vka his wisdom, word and spirit, all equally human, and all equally "jo kus."

How can we know a nature unless through its energies? Unless I communicate with you you cannot know me. So it is a mistake to confuse nature with energies that make the nature known to others. But is it also naïve to think that your wisdom word or spirit is any less human than the other two. The reason the East stresses Trinity more than the Catholic West is because it is through the divine Hypostatic Economy that God accomplishes our salvation in real time.

7,476 posted on 05/31/2006 7:04:35 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
How can we know a nature unless through its energies? Unless I communicate with you you cannot know me. So it is a mistake to confuse nature with energies that make the nature known to others. But is it also naïve to think that your wisdom word or spirit is any less human than the other two. The reason the East stresses Trinity more than the Catholic West is because it is through the divine Hypostatic Economy that God accomplishes our salvation in real time.

Well, I can know you by analogy to myself, since we both have a human nature. As to knowledge of me through my "energies", I admit that I am still mulling over whether my (or more to the point, God's) actions are part of me (or Him).

To be honest, I don't know why the East stresses the Personhood while the West stresses the Nature of the Trinity. I would like to think it is two approaches to the same truths, complimentary and not contradictory.

After reading on St. Symeon and St Palamas on the development of the doctrine of energies, I understand it to be a valid interpretation of the Patristic writings that preceded it - although certainly not the only one. Much of it relies on several presumptions - namely, that God is totally unknoweable in His Essence, but knoweable in His Energies, and secondly, that the "light" of the Transfiguration, the Burning Bush, and in the mystical prayer of the monk are all God's Energies, properly speaking. The West has a difficult time basing doctrines on subjective and private interpretations of contemplative prayer or experiences. Certainly, we believe orthopraxy and orthodoxy are related and the latter feeds of the former. But since the West looks more to Aristotle than Plato, our views on these experiences differ, especially as laid out by St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas.

In the end, brother, I see neither "wrong", just different ways of approaching the Trinity. I still am a bit confused on the necessity of God coming to us as an Energy - while still being God who is Transcendant. I am sure one of you will be able to explain this, as I doubt that after 2 weeks of reading and thinking, I have discovered some fatal flaw in a doctrine that has held fast for some 700 years!

Regards

7,501 posted on 06/01/2006 5:10:52 AM PDT by jo kus (There is nothing colder than a Christian who doesn't care for the salvation of others - St.Crysostom)
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