You replied Of course he was, he obtained his rightousness back in Gen.15, long before he offered up Issac.
This was not the only time he "obtained" righteousness.
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?" James 2:21
"By faith Abraham, being called, hearkened to go out into the place which he should afterwards receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he went" Hebrews 11:8
Not only was ABraham righteous, according to Romans 4, in Genesis 15, but Abraham was ALSO righteously declared in Genesis 12 and when he later offered to sacrifice his son Isaac. Thus, justification is not a one-time process. In each occasion, Abraham was declared righteous in God's eyes because of his faith working in love.
I didn't say you misquoted it, I said you quoted it out of context.
According to you, "Shall this faith [without works] be able to save them?" doesn't mean that faith alone does not save? How on earth do you manage to twist the Scriptures that is right there in black and white to deny what is there as plain as the nose on your face? The context is that man is not saved by merely SAYING he has faith! EVEN the devil has faith! Isn't it clear FROM THE CONTEXT that a person is saved by works [of love] AND to faith when you continue to read James 2, reading :
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. James 2:24
Please, you are in denial. How am I taking such plain language out of context? Follow what the Scripture SAYS, not what you want it to say.
Well, faith in Christ alone does save.
As opposed to "faith in Buddha", you are correct. But your definition of "faith" needs work. Sorry for the pun.
James is not talking about obtaining salvation, and contradicting what Paul said, he is talking about showing salvation (hence the use of the word 'shew me').
Thus, a faith without works DOES NOT SAVE. Logically, that means that faith without works is dead. Oh, yea, it says that in the Scriptures, too! I never said that works save. I said faith without works does not save. Sola Fide is dead.
James is written like a wisdom book, such as proverbs.
Well, that is about all I can agree with what you wrote. Are you now saying that James is not inspired Scriptures or given less meaning because it is a "wisdom book"?
When we come to Scriptures, we should be able to harmonize such passages, since it is the Word of God, which cannot lie. The solution is found in the different meaning of WORKS used by Paul and James, not FAITH.
Regards
Yes it was.
The quote in James 2:23 is from Gen.15:6.
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?" James 2:21
Justified before man, not before God.
Abraham showed his faith by his actions.
"By faith Abraham, being called, hearkened to go out into the place which he should afterwards receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he went"
Yes, but he didn't receive imputated Rightousness in Gen.12, he received in in Gen.15.
He received a promise from God, but not God's imputated Rightousness.
Not only was ABraham righteous, according to Romans 4, in Genesis 15, but Abraham was ALSO righteously declared in Genesis 12 and when he later offered to sacrifice his son Isaac. Thus, justification is not a one-time process. In each occasion, Abraham was declared righteous in God's eyes because of his faith working in love.
I think you mean Gen.22, but once again, that only showed that he had been saved, it didn't add any Rightousness to him.
I didn't say you misquoted it, I said you quoted it out of context. According to you, "Shall this faith [without works] be able to save them?" doesn't mean that faith alone does not save? How on earth do you manage to twist the Scriptures that is right there in black and white to deny what is there as plain as the nose on your face? The context is that man is not saved by merely SAYING he has faith! EVEN the devil has faith! Isn't it clear FROM THE CONTEXT that a person is saved by works [of love] AND to faith when you continue to read James 2, reading : Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. James 2:24
And once again, you are reading into the passage what isn't there.
What the devils believe is that there is one God, well that is not going to save anyone!
The beginning of the faith issue begins in James 2:14, begins with 'what does it profit, my brethren though a man say he hath faith and hath not works, can faith save him?
Save him from what?
You are assuming that it means eternal damnation, but there are other things that a believer has to worry about, like discipline from the Lord.
Abraham's faith was made perfect by works, which made him mature (Friend of God) not saved (which he was in Gen.15).
Please, you are in denial. How am I taking such plain language out of context? Follow what the Scripture SAYS, not what you want it to say. Well, faith in Christ alone does save. As opposed to "faith in Buddha", you are correct. But your definition of "faith" needs work. Sorry for the pun. James is not talking about obtaining salvation, and contradicting what Paul said, he is talking about showing salvation (hence the use of the word 'shew me'). Thus, a faith without works DOES NOT SAVE. Logically, that means that faith without works is dead. Oh, yea, it says that in the Scriptures, too! I never said that works save. I said faith without works does not save. Sola Fide is dead.
Well, Paul makes it very clear that works have nothing to do with salvation.
That is exactly how Rom.4:5 reads, but to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is counted for righteousness.
Nowhere does it say that Abraham obtained Righteousness from his works.
He was justified by works, works that showed his faith.
Now, you will note that Hebrews 11 is about faith being shown by works.
Sola Fide is very much alive, since it is the only thing that can save-no works can save you, they can only show that you are saved.
James is written like a wisdom book, such as proverbs. Well, that is about all I can agree with what you wrote. Are you now saying that James is not inspired Scriptures or given less meaning because it is a "wisdom book"?
No proverbs are scripture as is James.
But in proverbs the issue is right living and being blessed for it, not eternal salvation
When we come to Scriptures, we should be able to harmonize such passages, since it is the Word of God, which cannot lie. The solution is found in the different meaning of WORKS used by Paul and James, not FAITH.
No, the difference lies in the order in which they occur.
Faith is what saves you, then faith produces works which shows that salvation.
Works have nothing to do with salvation, they are a result of it.
The Just shall live by works?
No, the just shall live by faith and that faith must grow and produce works to reveal the rightousness of God (Rom.1:17)
If indeed the believer produces no works, then to the world, his faith is dead, like the faith that 'Just' Lot showed to Sodom.
Lot is called a 'righteous man' by Peter, yet he became drunk and committed incest. (2Pet.7-8).
Had not Abraham interceded for him, he would have died in Sodom (1Jn.5:16)
So, in the case of Lot, his faith could not save him from the wrath of God, it was a dead faith, but nevertheless, Lot is considered a saved man by Peter, being called 'Rightous' and 'Just'