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To: colorcountry
Exactly...even the 3 witesses said they view the plate "by the spirit," which is NOT to say they actually SAW them.

You're wrong.

Link

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

OLIVER COWDERY
DAVID WHITMER
MARTIN HARRIS

Not only did they see the plates and their engravings with their own eyes, but they heard God's voice tell them that the plates had been translated by the gift and power of God and thereby they know that they are true. The Lord commanded them to make a written statement, a testimony or witness of what they saw, what they heard, and to the truthfulness of the translation.
167 posted on 10/23/2005 7:19:06 AM PDT by Spiff (Robert Bork on the Miers Nomination: "I think it's a disaster on every level.")
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To: Spiff
Oh yeah, that's right the revised version of the 3 Witnesses.

How come it is, that the church was able to "rewrite" their testimony a CENTURY after they signed the original? Or was the Church wrong when they published the first...the Chruch was mistaken?

169 posted on 10/23/2005 7:48:32 AM PDT by colorcountry (Proud Parent of a Soldier (and Parent-in-law of a Soldier))
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To: Spiff
HERE IS THE ORIGINAL RENDITION:

“Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declaredit unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.” [emphasis added] OLIVER COWDERY DAVID WHITMER MARTIN HARRIS

170 posted on 10/23/2005 7:55:50 AM PDT by colorcountry (Proud Parent of a Soldier (and Parent-in-law of a Soldier))
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To: Spiff
Wrong.

Harris later recanted and, under pressure, admitted that he had seen the plates with "the eyes of faith" under a cloth.

Cowdery (the former school teacher and transcriptionist) and Whitmer later gave out statements that the LDS were "not a true church." Whitmer published a tract that called Joseph Smith a "false prophet."

Spiff, if you're going to bring it, bring it well. A Catholic like me shouldn't know more about your faith than you do.

177 posted on 10/23/2005 9:27:18 AM PDT by AlaninSA (It's ONE NATION UNDER GOD...brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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