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England: Church urged to refrain from allowing women bishops
VirtueOnline-News ^ | 6/30/2005 | Church of England Newspaper

Posted on 06/30/2005 6:12:18 PM PDT by sionnsar

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1 posted on 06/30/2005 6:12:19 PM PDT by sionnsar
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To: ahadams2; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; Hermann the Cherusker; ...
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-7 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

2 posted on 06/30/2005 6:12:44 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || <Airbus A380)^: The BIG PIG)
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To: sionnsar

I worship using the classic 1928 Book of Common Prayer and prefer all things traditional Anglican, but despite that I believe women should not be barred from the priesthood or becoming bishops. If Margaret Thatcher could be a prime minister, a woman can lead a church.


3 posted on 06/30/2005 7:19:01 PM PDT by tellw
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To: tellw
a woman can lead a church.

But only if she has a wife. 1 Tim. 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife...."

4 posted on 06/30/2005 7:24:59 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: sionnsar; TonyRo76; redgolum
As an ELCA Lutheran, I have known women pastors who are orthodox and act as spiritual mothers, without trying to be spiritual fathers. I have known other women pastors who are total feminazis, and back the "gay" agenda and never met a heresy they din't like. But every woman "bishop" I have ever known or heard of has been a TOTAL DISASTER!!!!

By the way, many Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Missouri Lutherans use the fact of the feminazi and gaysbian movement in churches that allow woman priests/pastors as an argument against women's ordination. However, the Roman Catholic church, which has neither women's ordinations nor married priests, has feminazi "theologians". But the Orthodox church, with married priests but no women's ordination, has NO feminazi "theologians" that I know of. Go figure.

5 posted on 06/30/2005 8:31:30 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Honorary Serb
Women priest and bishops always lead to the fall of the church body they represent. It amazes me that normally rational people can't see the correlation between the two these days.
6 posted on 07/01/2005 5:46:16 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: redgolum

Women priest and bishops always lead to the fall of the church body they represent. It amazes me that normally rational people can't see the correlation between the two these days.

Really? Do you have some examples?
8 posted on 07/01/2005 10:44:55 AM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue

Take a look at what happened to the ELCA, Anglican communion, Old Catholics, Methodists, UCC, etc.

When a church gets to the point it decided to ignore scripture and ordain women as pastor/priests, then it quickly jumps right in to ignoring the rest of the book.


9 posted on 07/01/2005 10:56:58 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Red - It's just not that easy. ALL churches ignore parts of scripture. I suppose that what you consider valid is as important as what you choose to ignore.


10 posted on 07/01/2005 11:02:38 AM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue; TonyRo76; Honorary Serb
Red - It's just not that easy. ALL churches ignore parts of scripture. I suppose that what you consider valid is as important as what you choose to ignore.

In short, you are right. All of us here on earth only understand in part, and we are just as likely to go tilting at windmills as the next guy.

But we aren't talking about some of the minor things that seem to keep church leaders busy on a slow winters day here. While I have seen and met some good women pastors, the fact remains that Paul really came out against it. Until relatively recently it wasn't even considered by most, if not all, denominations as an option.

Ask Tony and HS about the damage done by some of the feminists in the ELCA (don't know where you worship, so you might also have some first hand knowledge). Go ask some of the Anglicans about what happened when women started to get ordained.

The LCMS has had many bloody battles about this internally, and it always came down to "Can we back it up with Scripture." The answer is no.

11 posted on 07/01/2005 11:12:06 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

I am an Anglican. I agree with you that radical feminists have caused much damage. However, it is not their gender that causes the damage, it's their ideology. Look at the list of bishops who voted for Robinson to be ordained. Out of 100, 4 were women. How do you explain the men who voted for Robinson? My explanation is bad ideology/theology, not gender.


12 posted on 07/01/2005 11:17:30 AM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue
My explanation is bad ideology/theology, not gender

Maybe we are talking past each other. I see women's ordination as a symptom, not a cause, of the fall of a church. It is just a very visible symptom. As for the men who voted for Robinson (Vicky Gene), they were filled with a different spirit I guess. /joke

13 posted on 07/01/2005 11:23:35 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

I don't see how ordaining women of sound theology will cause the downfall of a church. That implies that women are unfit for the office. And, they are...just as men are basically unfit. It's a condition of our life here.

Oh, and I think he spells his name "Vicke". For what that's worth!


14 posted on 07/01/2005 11:30:15 AM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue
Vicke! Dang, now I have to learn to spell! :)

I guess it depends on how you view Paul's many statements on not having a woman lead the worship. In the past, that was help to mean no ordination. It has nothing to do with sound the particular theology of a woman. There are many female Anglican saints who had excellent theology and character, but were not priests.
15 posted on 07/01/2005 11:46:33 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Red - I'm trying to make sure I get this right, so, the only verses I find that say this are 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Am I missing some?


16 posted on 07/01/2005 4:06:14 PM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue
Am I missing some?

Yes. See the verses TonyRo76 listed in Post 7 to start.

1 Timothy 3:1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop (episkopos ) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders (presbuteros) in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise the deacons (diakonos) be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
11 Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

17 posted on 07/01/2005 7:44:59 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Romans 16 refers to "our sister Phoebe", a deaconess. So women were at the very least in Holy Orders in Paul's time. There is also reference to an "apostle" named Junia. Male or female?


18 posted on 07/02/2005 5:39:58 AM PDT by tellw
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To: sionnsar

For any lefties out there who don't understand what the 'no extablishment' clause is for -- this is it!


19 posted on 07/02/2005 5:42:48 AM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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To: tellw; PAR35

The Greek word transliterated 'deacon' or 'deaconess' simply means servant. Whether or not that is an office of the church should be evaluated on context.


20 posted on 07/02/2005 5:45:45 AM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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