Posted on 05/31/2005 6:04:43 PM PDT by sionnsar
TULSA, Okla. (AP) Nearly two years after the Episcopal Church USA elected a gay bishop in New Hampshire, members of a south Tulsa Episcopal church have decided to withdraw from the denomination.
The leadership of Church of the Holy Spirit Episcopal met with Oklahoma Bishop Robert Moody last week to discuss details of the withdrawal.
A congregational meeting was held Sunday to explain the situation to members.
Steve Juett, senior warden of the Church of the Holy Spirit, said the decision to leave the Episcopal Church was not based solely on the gay bishop issue, but was the culmination of many things over many years.
"We feel that the Episcopal Church is moving away from the orthodox teachings of the Anglican communion," Juett said.
The approval of the Rev. V. Gene Robinson, a non-celibate gay man, as bishop of New Hampshire nearly two years ago was "probably the final straw," he said.
Junior Warden Ralph Faulkner said the Episcopal Church "seems to be going to more of a neo-Christian stance, dictated by culture."
Most of the members of the Church of the Holy Spirit are orthodox in their outlook, he said, and hope to affiliate with the worldwide Anglican communion, which still "holds scripture and its authority highly."
The 77-million-member Anglican communion has sharply criticized the Episcopal Church, for its approval of a gay bishop.
Faulkner and Juett said Bishop Moody has been gracious and understanding and that the separation has been amicable.
The Rev. Canon Charles Woltz, spokesman for the bishop, said he understood that the key areas of disagreement were the interpretation of scripture, issues of human sexuality and church government.
He said meetings with the church leaders were civil and gracious.
"They've been kind, as Christian and as cooperative as possible," he said of the Church of the Holy Spirit leadership.
"Our intent is to try our best to be sure that whatever we do, on both sides of this issue, we separate as Christian brothers and sisters. There can indeed be reconciliation in leaving."
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. Will the last straight person in ECUSA please paint the red doors purple..
Paint the doors Rainbow and hang a Rainbow ribbon over the doors.
Good for them!
"... and hope to affiliate with the worldwide Anglican communion, which still "holds scripture and its authority highly."
And in the meantime, what? Vagante status? I know they had to leave, but leave into what? +Ignatius of Antioch defined the Church as a bishop surrounded by his clergy and the people of God. Without a bishop within the Apostolic Succession, no church, just some sort of ecclesial assembly; far better than communion with heretics, but no church.
I agree. The only group I had contact that was considering a departure was considering its destination at least as carefully as the decision to leave.
AMiA...duh!
Perhaps. I went to the church website and I'll be hornswoggled if I can find one reference to any clergy. The church clearly uses the 1979 Prayer Book so if they are serious about orthodoxy then that's got to be the first thing to go. APCK's diocesan parish happens to be in Tulsa, so they do have someplace domestic to go. Their bona fides would need to be vetted of course.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
While I do know of a few congregations that will be joining the AMiA soon - I'm unaware of these folks. But that doesn't mean that they won't be joining us, I just haven't heard their name in any conversations I've had with my Bishop.
St Paul the Apostle defined church as a community of believers.
Citation, please?
I Corinthians 1:2
"To the Church of God that is in Corinth; to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours."
St Paul is stating that all those who are called to be saints and are sanctified in the Lord are members of the Church.
I Corinthians 12:13
"For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body"
This is typical of St Paul. Throughout his epistles, he emphasizes that those who are baptized and are being sanctified are part of the Body of Christ, which is his Church. So long as they have the Holy Spirit and a functioning community of leaders, teachers, healers etc., they are a valid church.
However, it doesn't follow that any community of believers is "the Church". My family is a community of believers, but we don't have the right to separate from the wider Church.
Kolokotronis is absolutely right that the a "church" properly so-called is the community of the faithful, together with the elders and the bishop of the diocese.
You know, Ignatius of Antioch knew St. Paul personally (probably St. Peter, too). He ended up as a lion snack in the arena in Rome in AD 110. Before his death, he wrote in one of his letters that to celebrate the Eucharist behind the bishop's back was equivalent to devil worship. Just something to think about.
Well, yes, kinda. What's typical of St. Paul is that he writes circuitously, from presuppositions, rather than providing definitions like a catechism.
Just a peripheral issue to this article, anyway. As a former Tulsa resident, I wish this congregation the best, wherever they're going.
Not the exact cite you are looking for, but an even Higher authority than Paul on the general topic:
"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." Matt 18:20
Effectively a church with the Boss there; I recall St. Paul saying much as represented by the other poster, but I do not know where.
One of the items on St Paul's list of gifts for the various members of each community of saints is leadership. He wrote to St Timothy that each community should have an overseer (in Greek, episcopos). You can no more have a functioning community made up entirely of healers than you can have a functioning human made entirely of eyeballs. One of the tasks for each community is to start new communities of such believers in neighboring towns and villages. As time progresses and communities start new communities nearby, a chain forms linking each one back to Jerusalem.
Good points. I was just wondering if there was a verse for the exact quote, or if the poster was paraphrasing (as one often must, with dear, verbose St. Paul.)
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